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The continuing decline of Speedway

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3 minutes ago, mikebv said:

 

 

 

The Champions League can get won by a club that are not that Countries Champion, but so what?  It provides many more of the best teams in the same competition, giving success in this competition far more kudos than in its previous guise when teams could reach the semis by just beating a few Romanian ferret smugglers or Albanian goat herders...

 

And so what if Doyle guests for puk ? better that beating some junior ( Romanian ferret smuggler ) who has replaced him 

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42 minutes ago, orion said:

And so what if Doyle guests for puk ? better that beating some junior ( Romanian ferret smuggler ) who has replaced him 

Because Doyle could come in and score points for a team that's vying for his own team's qualifying spot and could score the point that puts his own team out of contention for the play-offs. Surely you can see the lack of credibility in that.

And the junior will replace the #7. The heat leader will be replaced by his team's next lowest average rider.

Edited by Barney Rabbit
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3 minutes ago, Barney Rabbit said:

Because Doyle could come in and score points for a team that's vying for his own team's qualifying spot and could score the point that puts his own team out of contention for the play-offs. Surely you can see the lack of credibility in that.

And the junior will replace the #7. The heat leader will be replaced by his team's next lowest average rider.

Number one will still out of the side and a junior will be  coming into the side no matter how you dress it up ...Tell me if  people care so much about credibility who would  get the biggest crowd ...A. Doyle replaced by a Junior or B Doyle replaced by Woffy 

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14 minutes ago, orion said:

Number one will still out of the side and a junior will be  coming into the side no matter how you dress it up ...Tell me if  people care so much about credibility who would  get the biggest crowd ...A. Doyle replaced by a Junior or B Doyle replaced by Woffy 

I don't know because I haven't gone round and canvassed folk at a meeting where a guest #1 was used and asked them if they'd still have been there if a junior rider who could ride the track, doubling-up anyway and possibly every bit as good as the team's regular #7 had come in at reserve. Many 2nd highest average riders are capable of beating an opposing #1 anyway, especially at home, and there was a time that people would turn up to see the top men beaten by 'lesser' riders. And, quite frankly, since Woffy isn't an option, I can't see any rider currently riding in the top tier making much difference to the crowd anyway.

And, as I posted, Doyle would not be replaced by a junior since that junior would not ride against the opposing #1 in a programmed ride as Doyle would have done. In effect, there would be a series of replacements culminating in the junior replacing the #7.

Edited by Barney Rabbit
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1 minute ago, Barney Rabbit said:

I don't know because I haven't gone round and canvassed folk 

 

You don't have canvassed anyone the answer is b .its amazing that someone could think that a world champion missing  would  not have  an effect on the crowd .its easy see why speedway is in trouble when people think like that .

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1 minute ago, orion said:

You don't have canvassed anyone the answer is b .its amazing that someone could think that a world champion missing  would  not have  an effect on the crowd .its easy see why speedway is in trouble when people think like that .

That's not what you asked and that's not what I answered. I agree that Woffy, if he were available, would put a few bums on seats but he's not available so not in the equation.

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Is it time to wake up? Are the rest of the world v Warburton's still arguing?

Edited by Whisperer

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7 hours ago, mikebv said:

When Speedway was massive it was down to far many other reasons than just the racing....

And it's National TV coverage focused on International and Individual events which invariably had British winners...

What you got served up at your local track was somewhat different, however you only found out riders were missing when you had paid to get in, not well in advance like happens now via forums and social media. And moaned to those 10 or so around you, not the 1000's who read websites like today...

The Champions League can get won by a club that are not that Countries Champion, but so what?  It provides many more of the best teams in the same competition, giving success in this competition far more kudos than in its previous guise when teams could reach the semis by just beating a few Romanian ferret smugglers or Albanian goat herders...

In British Speedway you can cherry pick riders from any of your competitors to improve your team and help you be successful, even if the help they provide directly results in their own team ultimately losing out on success themselves..

Just think about how you would sell that concept to a wider Sporting audience, in the hope it would sound credible and attract them, especially in a 24/7 modern media age..

It would take some marketing guru to work that one....

...yes it's inconcievable today to think that once Great Britain and/or England once ruled the speedway world. No accident that the formation of the old Second Division helped propel that.

It has been suggested that the Danes (in particular Hans Nielsen and Erik Gundersen) becoming so dominant during the middle.late eighties that the media began to loose interest in the sport...and of course the Yanks. By the time Gary Havelock won the Individual Championship (1992) the momentum had been long lost.

Edited by steve roberts
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6 hours ago, orion said:

Number one will still out of the side and a junior will be  coming into the side no matter how you dress it up ...Tell me if  people care so much about credibility who would  get the biggest crowd ...A. Doyle replaced by a Junior or B Doyle replaced by Woffy 

That proves that speedway has lost its team identity with the wider community. If it still had a proper team identity and linked to the local community the gate wouldn't be massively hit as the supporters of the team would attend and get behind it real backs to the wall stuff.

My own personal view and I've seen it many times is your team made weaker by injury pulls together with the crowd and pulls off the result.

The problem is now your riders are not your riders and that tight bond that riders have to a club is lost because tomorrow those team mates could be on the opposite sides of the pits.  This in turn reduces the attachment that the fans have to the teams and results in lower crowds. 

I know orion doesn't want to hear this but I am on of 15 to 20 guys who used to attend week in week out come rain or shine no matter how strong or week our team or the visitors were. 

The reason none of us attend anymore is a direct result of doubling up and the guest fest speedway that is served up. 

Possibly the only way to bring attention to the sport now would be that all riders are on central BSPA contracts and on a Sunday afternoon a live draw is made as to what teams those riders ride for in that coming week........ To be fair it's not far off that type of lottery now! 

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Interesting (or I think so!) that when Oxford Stadium had a snooker room after one particular meeting (I think that it had been abandoned due to the weather) Per Sorensen and, I think, Nigel De'Ath were enjoying a game on the table next to me...would that happened nowadays (certainly not at Cowley of course) with riders spending time with the fans after a meeting with all the travelling backwards and forwards to Europe that they are required to partake in today's climate?

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8 hours ago, orion said:

You don't have canvassed anyone the answer is b .its amazing that someone could think that a world champion missing  would  not have  an effect on the crowd .its easy see why speedway is in trouble when people think like that .

You've hit the nail on the head again. All the world champions that had to retire over time took so many bums off seats - Fundin, Briggs, Mauger, Collins, Penhall, Olsen, Rickardsson, Crump... The list of characters and crowd pullers is endless. 

Sadly, no one in current day racing holds their puling power.

Woffinden and Doyle, with respect, just don't have it.

Edited by moxey63
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10 hours ago, mikebv said:

When Speedway was massive it was down to far many other reasons than just the racing....

1

When speedway was massive, looking back, it was still easy to find people who didn't like it, didn't attend and thought it was a bit silly.

However, unlike nowadays, they weren't ex-fans.

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2 hours ago, Spl77 said:

That proves that speedway has lost its team identity with the wider community. If it still had a proper team identity and linked to the local community the gate wouldn't be massively hit as the supporters of the team would attend and get behind it real backs to the wall stuff.

My own personal view and I've seen it many times is your team made weaker by injury pulls together with the crowd and pulls off the result.

The problem is now your riders are not your riders and that tight bond that riders have to a club is lost because tomorrow those team mates could be on the opposite sides of the pits.  This in turn reduces the attachment that the fans have to the teams and results in lower crowds. 

I know orion doesn't want to hear this but I am on of 15 to 20 guys who used to attend week in week out come rain or shine no matter how strong or week our team or the visitors were. 

The reason none of us attend anymore is a direct result of doubling up and the guest fest speedway that is served up. 

Possibly the only way to bring attention to the sport now would be that all riders are on central BSPA contracts and on a Sunday afternoon a live draw is made as to what teams those riders ride for in that coming week........ To be fair it's not far off that type of lottery now! 

Your going a bit ott in what your saying .Who was missing in  last  nights matches in the premier league .Who had guests ? as I said before swindon have only made one change this year and kept  5 of the same riders they had from last year .Belle Vue and Wolves have hardly made any changes this year and have a lot of the same riders from last year as well .I think these teams made more changes 30 years ago . Speedway made a effort this year after fans  kept moaning about guests, riders missing etc and in a way it's been lot better in terms of teams being the same  week in week out .the trouble is all we  had then was people wanting  go back to riding on Friday night's etc when half the teams would be missing .the bottom line is  you really can't win with speedway fans .

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Watching this with semi-interest. Yes, that's where I am with the sport I once loved.

We can all argue around the edges about guests, rider replacement, doubling up,  play-offs, etc. Sadly, I think the promoters who run the sport have the same squabbles, rather than actually presenting a compelling vision. A few years ago I posted on here about how the sport in Britain needed to come together in one league with regional divisions and lose all GP riders in a bid to strip back costs, regain some credibility and focus on creating a better fan experience in the crumbling facilities.

I now think we have gone well, well beyond that and it needs a much more radical overhaul.

Beyond football (and even below the Premier League), how many professional team sports can now sustain themselves? Below the premiership, Rugby Union struggles. Rugby League clubs are under threat, County Cricket is (barely) propped up by Twenty20, Take That gigs and revenue from the international game.  What hope has speedway really got?

Looking back to the 70s and 80s is all well and good. But by and large pointless, it's a different era and what worked then, would not work now. My interest peaked around the early 80s going to Hyde Road. I was chuffed to recently see some YouTube videos of Belle Vue v Cradley and Belle Vue v Halifax from 1982 on YouTube - Penhall, Carter, Gundersen, Morton, Collins, jumpers for goalposts. But you know what? It was not as good as I remember it to be. Why? Back then there was much less choice and our expectations of an entertainment experience were lower - cinemas had sticky floors, football stadiums stank of p*** and live sport was not on tap 24 hours a day.

Today, speedway's key market of young families has much wider choice of entertainment options and with the growth of technology, easier access to it. But they also have less disposable income and - in many cases - are up to their eyeballs in their mortgage. So, they are much more discerning and speedway has to compete harder for their share of the consumer's wallet. 

The key word in all this is "value." Does a typical outing to the speedway really offer value to a family of four? I don't believe it does.

I think promoters have to be really creative in getting footprint into the facilities. It would require some hard work and coming together, but I think speedway's best shot is working with other sports (also struggling) and offering a full multi-sport experience to families. Let's imagine the following offering on a Saturday or Sunday or Bank Holiday Monday: 

1pm - Greyhounds
2pm - Speedway
3pm - Flat Track
4pm - Sidecars
5pm - Bangers

Get a hog roast, pizza oven, bouncy castle etc. and cross sell to a bigger crowd.  £15 per adult, £5 per child. It is a different conversation with sponsors if you are drawing in a wider market to the site and getting much more eyeballs on their brand. Now, I am sure there are many arguments over the practical difficulties over this type of model over intricacies like track preparation, but surely none of this is impossible? British speedway has to think differently - radically differently - otherwise it will just fade away into irrelevance.

 

Edited by falcace

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