Bagpuss 10,758 Posted June 14, 2018 Putting crowds aside for one moment it's no mystery why they went for Mondays and what should have been Thursdays as they are the nights that leagues in other countries don't run; Mondays are also clear of Championship fixtures and Thursdays could / should have been made so too to avoid all clashes. Weekends are always going to attract better crowds but with Poland riding on all three nights and World championship rounds / GP's / U21 rounds etc regularly on Saturday nights it's difficult to see how we can run a top league to a decent standard on those nights without riders being missing for virtually every fixture. The aim of FRN's is to prevent fixture clashes and while Wednesdays are proving a disaster for those teams with Danes Mondays are perfect. One of things which has put people off British speedway in recent years is the endless guests and R/R's, the sacrifice for putting that right is to run on nights when riders are available. It's difficult to please everybody of course, Belle Vue and Rye seem to have had smaller crowds so far if you believe what you read on here and having been traditionally weekend tracks it's perhaps no surprise. It's a really difficult to get the balance right. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, MattK said: Many Championship teams run on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday without top riders and they on average attract smaller crowds than mid-week Premiership teams with stars. So the evidence suggests the answer to your question appears to be "yes" the fan base would drop further without them. The follow on question to this is whether Championship teams with smaller crowds, but in turn lower costs are more profitable (or at least more sustainable)? The number of Championship clubs that seem to be in perpetual financial difficulty suggests not. Championship crowds run to lesser crowds after years and years of often having to run 'select teams' when their heat leaders are needed in other countries... Even the most ardent fans are now giving such nonsense a miss.. When it's not 'your team' then why attend? So many have simply lost that 'emotional attachment' as it has been eroded away by a completely unfit for purpose Operating Model.. One thing for me though is clear.... If the Leagues actually possessed 100% credibility, and everything else was equal, ie the same 14 riders, the same weather conditions, the same start time and the same admission costs. The crowd levels attracted on a Friday or Saturday evenings, or a Sunday afternoon, would far out weigh the crowd you would generate (for exactly the same thing) on any given evening Monday to Thursday... The flip side to that is it doesn't really matter what night you run if fans are not going to attend because they don't feel any attachment to any randomly cobbled together teams put in front of them... That weekend clubs currently ride in front of 'lesser crowds' is more down to a disillusioned ex fan base, who gradually got more peed off with the nonsense being put in front of them I would suggest rather than the night they race on... Quite simply the current British Speedway Operating Model does absolutely no one any great favours... And that is not usually a successful way to run a business.... Edited June 14, 2018 by mikebv 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted June 14, 2018 I watch speedway regularly at all three levels, and crowds are down across the board. Not all of this can be blamed on fixed race nights. The product and the facilities are generally poor, and don't represent value for money anymore. I paid £21 including prog to watch a dust bowl at Poole last night, was it worth it, not in my opinion. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topaz325 1,853 Posted June 14, 2018 Many championship teams would like to ride on Friday, Saturday or Sunday......few seldom do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickthemuppet 976 Posted June 14, 2018 why would any team would want to race on a Monday I know this could be quite simple but why do the clubs not say what nights they want to race on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Al 708 Posted June 19, 2018 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Flag 454 Posted June 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? Well that rules Wolves out due to lack of stadium availability, but hey ho at least your happy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Al 708 Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Red Flag said: Well that rules Wolves out due to lack of stadium availability, but hey ho at least your happy You must have missed "occasionally Mondays will be used" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
New Science 1,059 Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? What about riders who double up in both leagues ( which is most of them ) back to teams packed full of guests again ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Flag 454 Posted June 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Big Al said: You must have missed "occasionally Mondays will be used" Occasionall Mondays are not much good, we would need every Monday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/14/2018 at 11:20 PM, mickthemuppet said: why would any team would want to race on a Monday I know this could be quite simple but why do the clubs not say what nights they want to race on King's Lynn will do better on a Monday than on a Weds ( because of Danish &others away in Denmark ). Getting 800 to nearly 1,000 running against the World Cup England game was a reasonable result. I think a lot of fans -most of all want to see a full KL team ride. I certainly do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Al 708 Posted June 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? I half suspected this would get "local" responses. Never mind your own club to start with, it's a hypothetical question. There have been some voices on BSF calling for the UK to ditch the International Leagues agreement and just run on race nights that suit the UK best instead. Many of those are highly anti-Mondays although if a club wanted/needed to run on Monday well why not if it decided that's best for them. So to start with, how many riders would the UK league be left with, if the UK were to declare UDI and for the most part go head to head with Poland? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish McRaker 601 Posted June 20, 2018 I think there would be about 80 riders from the current teams lists who would take the "no Poland" pledge, as long as they had assurances of sufficient UK matches Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted June 20, 2018 18 hours ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? Saying "no Poland" is too simplistic. There are many other FIM events held at weekends. A simple search turns up: GP: 10 Saturdays GP Challenge: 2 Saturdays SoN/SWC: 1/2 Saturday(s) World U21: 2 Fridays, 1 Saturday, 1 Sunday Team U21: 2 Saturdays I make that 20 weekends disrupted by a FIM event, no taking into account practice on the night before. On top of that, you have various SEC, Euro and other events. I'm not saying it couldn't be achieved with sensible fixture planning, but this doesn't happen at the moment with fewer weekend fixtures, so I don't have a lot of confidence clashed could be avoided if the British leagues were racing primarily at weekends. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted June 20, 2018 Close down all tracks for a couple of years and SO many people will protest and sign petitions, join street marches demanding the return of speedway racing in the UK. The national Press and the media will swarm all over it and every track can then re-open to bumper crowds. In the No Racing Era many of the problems of today could be solved with bright ideas for holding the hordes of new fans ( standardised bikes, crisply run meetings etc ). Now it's just an old habit for many, but in a bright New World after the Great Quietness people would really Want To Come. And riders & Promoters would realise just how important fans really are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites