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INCOGNITO

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Posted (edited)
On 7/1/2018 at 12:03 AM, INCOGNITO said:

 

 

Even the level it is now tracks can't afford it

1

 

On 7/1/2018 at 8:31 AM, Najjer said:

It's down to clubs to manage themselves a lot better in my opinion.

 

Incognito, there's the crux of the matter. Najjer is entirely correct, as recent events have shown, there are clubs out there who don't work with any kind of financial prudence, they have a surfeit of ambition, which isn't matched by their financial ability to support it, and those clubs who do 'Cut their Cloth' accordingly are being asked to lower their standards yet again.

If you think it's a £10 sport as you have stated, please, please, please, throw your hat in the ring and come and show the existing promotions how it can be done. I think as Grachan has suggested, you'll soon be looking for another solution.

Edited by womble53
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On the idea of having 1 combined league, I think there are probably just enough riders to have a 6 man 16 team league but the problems then come when injuries occur or riders are missing for another reason. Of course, if you include Rye House this would also involve 3 teams from the current top 2 leagues not being involved. Haven't bothered with averages and who knows whether these sides would still be too expensive but possibly something like;

Team 1: Dan Bewley, Jason Garrity, Dimitri Berge, Jye Etheridge, Josh Pickering, Kyle Bickley

2: Steve Worrall, Thomas Jorgensen, Lewis Rose, Kasper Andersen, Mason Campton, Connor Mountain

3: Ricky Wells, Lasse Bjerre, Todd Kurtz, Simon Lambert, Max Ruml, Ben Morley

4: Nicolai Klindt, Rene Bach, Kyle Newman, Paul Starke, Ellis Perks, Leon Flint

5: Rohan Tungate, Aaron Summers, Bradley Wilson-Dean, Rasmus Jensen, James Shanes, Danyon Hume

6: Rory Schlein, Ty Proctor, Cameron Heeps, Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen, Max Clegg, Danny Ayres

7: Nick Morris, Adam Ellis, Stefan Nielsen, Dany Gappmaier, Zach Wajtknecht, Anders Rowe

8: Erik Riss, David Bellego, David Howe, Victor Palovaara, Mark Riss, Alfie Bowtell

9: Chris Harris, Claus Vissing, Jaimon Lindsey, Jonas Jeppesen, James Sarjeant, Jack Thomas

10: Danny King, Michael Palm-Toft, Nico Covatti, Michael Hartel, Nathan Greaves, Drew Kemp

11: Eddie Kennett, Lewis Kerr, Kevin Doolan, Luke Becker, Jordan Stewart, Tom Brennan

12: Richie Worrall, Stuart Robson, Ludvig Lindgren, Ashley Morris, Carl Wilkinson, Danny Phillips

13: Scott Nicholls, Ulrich Ostergaard, Matej Kus, Emil Grondal, Nike Lunna, Tom Bacon

14: Richard Lawson, Ben Barker, Jonas B Andersen, Mikkel B Andersen, Tobias Busch, Josh Bailey

15: Craig Cook, Josh Auty, Jake Allen, Gino Manzares, Tero Aarnio, Jack Smith

16: Kyle Howarth, Charles Wright, Josh Bates, Broc Nicol, Jan Graversen, Georgie Wood

 

You don't want to completely exclude the likes of Doyle, Iversen, Lambert, Fricke, Holder, Andersen etc so those clubs who can afford them can also take part in a Super League where you can bring in 2 or 3 of them in place of your lowest averaged riders from the main league. This would have a maximum of 8 teams, and ride each other once home and away, ideally in the June-August period, play-offs included. BT could hopefully show this whilst a number of meetings in the 16 team league would be streamed live.

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2 hours ago, The Cheese said:

On the idea of having 1 combined league, I think there are probably just enough riders to have a 6 man 16 team league but the problems then come when injuries occur or riders are missing for another reason. Of course, if you include Rye House this would also involve 3 teams from the current top 2 leagues not being involved. Haven't bothered with averages and who knows whether these sides would still be too expensive but possibly something like;

Team 1: Dan Bewley, Jason Garrity, Dimitri Berge, Jye Etheridge, Josh Pickering, Kyle Bickley

2: Steve Worrall, Thomas Jorgensen, Lewis Rose, Kasper Andersen, Mason Campton, Connor Mountain

3: Ricky Wells, Lasse Bjerre, Todd Kurtz, Simon Lambert, Max Ruml, Ben Morley

4: Nicolai Klindt, Rene Bach, Kyle Newman, Paul Starke, Ellis Perks, Leon Flint

5: Rohan Tungate, Aaron Summers, Bradley Wilson-Dean, Rasmus Jensen, James Shanes, Danyon Hume

6: Rory Schlein, Ty Proctor, Cameron Heeps, Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen, Max Clegg, Danny Ayres

7: Nick Morris, Adam Ellis, Stefan Nielsen, Dany Gappmaier, Zach Wajtknecht, Anders Rowe

8: Erik Riss, David Bellego, David Howe, Victor Palovaara, Mark Riss, Alfie Bowtell

9: Chris Harris, Claus Vissing, Jaimon Lindsey, Jonas Jeppesen, James Sarjeant, Jack Thomas

10: Danny King, Michael Palm-Toft, Nico Covatti, Michael Hartel, Nathan Greaves, Drew Kemp

11: Eddie Kennett, Lewis Kerr, Kevin Doolan, Luke Becker, Jordan Stewart, Tom Brennan

12: Richie Worrall, Stuart Robson, Ludvig Lindgren, Ashley Morris, Carl Wilkinson, Danny Phillips

13: Scott Nicholls, Ulrich Ostergaard, Matej Kus, Emil Grondal, Nike Lunna, Tom Bacon

14: Richard Lawson, Ben Barker, Jonas B Andersen, Mikkel B Andersen, Tobias Busch, Josh Bailey

15: Craig Cook, Josh Auty, Jake Allen, Gino Manzares, Tero Aarnio, Jack Smith

16: Kyle Howarth, Charles Wright, Josh Bates, Broc Nicol, Jan Graversen, Georgie Wood

 

You don't want to completely exclude the likes of Doyle, Iversen, Lambert, Fricke, Holder, Andersen etc so those clubs who can afford them can also take part in a Super League where you can bring in 2 or 3 of them in place of your lowest averaged riders from the main league. This would have a maximum of 8 teams, and ride each other once home and away, ideally in the June-August period, play-offs included. BT could hopefully show this whilst a number of meetings in the 16 team league would be streamed live.

Those teams are an absolute nightmare. Speedway is at its least appealing when you see a near-empty stadium, a few old people filling in programmes and very little atmosphere. That is what you would get with these sides, £10 or no £10.

Speedway is dying on its feet and people suggest the way forward is to make people not want to go. Absolutely staggering.

Mind you, with those sides, you would get riders like Nick Morris and Craig Cook on 10+ point averages, so some people would probably think the league was stronger.

Seriously, please, stop suggesting speedway becoming like this. It scares me. Because I have grown up supporting a team, and that team is Swindon Speedway, I do retain an interest in the sport. But it needs to be a worthy standard to entice me - and, I suspect, many of the others who rarely now attend - through the gates.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, The Cheese said:

On the idea of having 1 combined league, I think there are probably just enough riders to have a 6 man 16 team league but the problems then come when injuries occur or riders are missing for another reason. Of course, if you include Rye House this would also involve 3 teams from the current top 2 leagues not being involved. Haven't bothered with averages and who knows whether these sides would still be too expensive but possibly something like;

Team 1: Dan Bewley, Jason Garrity, Dimitri Berge, Jye Etheridge, Josh Pickering, Kyle Bickley

2: Steve Worrall, Thomas Jorgensen, Lewis Rose, Kasper Andersen, Mason Campton, Connor Mountain

3: Ricky Wells, Lasse Bjerre, Todd Kurtz, Simon Lambert, Max Ruml, Ben Morley

4: Nicolai Klindt, Rene Bach, Kyle Newman, Paul Starke, Ellis Perks, Leon Flint

5: Rohan Tungate, Aaron Summers, Bradley Wilson-Dean, Rasmus Jensen, James Shanes, Danyon Hume

6: Rory Schlein, Ty Proctor, Cameron Heeps, Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen, Max Clegg, Danny Ayres

7: Nick Morris, Adam Ellis, Stefan Nielsen, Dany Gappmaier, Zach Wajtknecht, Anders Rowe

8: Erik Riss, David Bellego, David Howe, Victor Palovaara, Mark Riss, Alfie Bowtell

9: Chris Harris, Claus Vissing, Jaimon Lindsey, Jonas Jeppesen, James Sarjeant, Jack Thomas

10: Danny King, Michael Palm-Toft, Nico Covatti, Michael Hartel, Nathan Greaves, Drew Kemp

11: Eddie Kennett, Lewis Kerr, Kevin Doolan, Luke Becker, Jordan Stewart, Tom Brennan

12: Richie Worrall, Stuart Robson, Ludvig Lindgren, Ashley Morris, Carl Wilkinson, Danny Phillips

13: Scott Nicholls, Ulrich Ostergaard, Matej Kus, Emil Grondal, Nike Lunna, Tom Bacon

14: Richard Lawson, Ben Barker, Jonas B Andersen, Mikkel B Andersen, Tobias Busch, Josh Bailey

15: Craig Cook, Josh Auty, Jake Allen, Gino Manzares, Tero Aarnio, Jack Smith

16: Kyle Howarth, Charles Wright, Josh Bates, Broc Nicol, Jan Graversen, Georgie Wood

 

You don't want to completely exclude the likes of Doyle, Iversen, Lambert, Fricke, Holder, Andersen etc so those clubs who can afford them can also take part in a Super League where you can bring in 2 or 3 of them in place of your lowest averaged riders from the main league. This would have a maximum of 8 teams, and ride each other once home and away, ideally in the June-August period, play-offs included. BT could hopefully show this whilst a number of meetings in the 16 team league would be streamed live.

I wonder how many of those riders see themselves as full time professionals?

I venture the answer to that question is very strongly linked to British Speedway's problems..

Edited by mikebv

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On 6/29/2018 at 9:19 AM, Fromafar said:

9-5 job is the answer.Speedway is not the answer if that is the case.

cant have a 9-5 job and still have midweek meetings.

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31 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Those teams are an absolute nightmare. Speedway is at its least appealing when you see a near-empty stadium, a few old people filling in programmes and very little atmosphere. That is what you would get with these sides, £10 or no £10.

Speedway is dying on its feet and people suggest the way forward is to make people not want to go. Absolutely staggering.

Mind you, with those sides, you would get riders like Nick Morris and Craig Cook on 10+ point averages, so some people would probably think the league was stronger.

Seriously, please, stop suggesting speedway becoming like this. It scares me. Because I have grown up supporting a team, and that team is Swindon Speedway, I do retain an interest in the sport. But it needs to be a worthy standard to entice me - and, I suspect, many of the others who rarely now attend - through the gates.

Just to be clear - I agree with you and certainly wouldn't want to see a league like that myself. It was just basically an example of what they could look like if the BSPA went down the route of having 1 big league. :t:

 

 

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3 hours ago, The Cheese said:

On the idea of having 1 combined league, I think there are probably just enough riders to have a 6 man 16 team league but the problems then come when injuries occur or riders are missing for another reason. Of course, if you include Rye House this would also involve 3 teams from the current top 2 leagues not being involved. Haven't bothered with averages and who knows whether these sides would still be too expensive but possibly something like;

Team 1: Dan Bewley, Jason Garrity, Dimitri Berge, Jye Etheridge, Josh Pickering, Kyle Bickley

2: Steve Worrall, Thomas Jorgensen, Lewis Rose, Kasper Andersen, Mason Campton, Connor Mountain

3: Ricky Wells, Lasse Bjerre, Todd Kurtz, Simon Lambert, Max Ruml, Ben Morley

4: Nicolai Klindt, Rene Bach, Kyle Newman, Paul Starke, Ellis Perks, Leon Flint

5: Rohan Tungate, Aaron Summers, Bradley Wilson-Dean, Rasmus Jensen, James Shanes, Danyon Hume

6: Rory Schlein, Ty Proctor, Cameron Heeps, Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen, Max Clegg, Danny Ayres

7: Nick Morris, Adam Ellis, Stefan Nielsen, Dany Gappmaier, Zach Wajtknecht, Anders Rowe

8: Erik Riss, David Bellego, David Howe, Victor Palovaara, Mark Riss, Alfie Bowtell

9: Chris Harris, Claus Vissing, Jaimon Lindsey, Jonas Jeppesen, James Sarjeant, Jack Thomas

10: Danny King, Michael Palm-Toft, Nico Covatti, Michael Hartel, Nathan Greaves, Drew Kemp

11: Eddie Kennett, Lewis Kerr, Kevin Doolan, Luke Becker, Jordan Stewart, Tom Brennan

12: Richie Worrall, Stuart Robson, Ludvig Lindgren, Ashley Morris, Carl Wilkinson, Danny Phillips

13: Scott Nicholls, Ulrich Ostergaard, Matej Kus, Emil Grondal, Nike Lunna, Tom Bacon

14: Richard Lawson, Ben Barker, Jonas B Andersen, Mikkel B Andersen, Tobias Busch, Josh Bailey

15: Craig Cook, Josh Auty, Jake Allen, Gino Manzares, Tero Aarnio, Jack Smith

16: Kyle Howarth, Charles Wright, Josh Bates, Broc Nicol, Jan Graversen, Georgie Wood

 

You don't want to completely exclude the likes of Doyle, Iversen, Lambert, Fricke, Holder, Andersen etc so those clubs who can afford them can also take part in a Super League where you can bring in 2 or 3 of them in place of your lowest averaged riders from the main league. This would have a maximum of 8 teams, and ride each other once home and away, ideally in the June-August period, play-offs included. BT could hopefully show this whilst a number of meetings in the 16 team league would be streamed live.

Looking at the team with Cook in and presuming the seventh member of the six man team is a ghost R/R position like last time where the top four take the rides, it gives a total of nearly 47 points using Championship figares. 

This is stronger than the current Championship, so those knocking the standard are basically saying that division is  $%^^ and they wouldn’t watch it. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ouch said:

Looking at the team with Cook in and presuming the seventh member of the six man team is a ghost R/R position like last time where the top four take the rides, it gives a total of nearly 47 points using Championship figares. 

This is stronger than the current Championship, so those knocking the standard are basically saying that division is  $%^^ and they wouldn’t watch it. 

Correct. The current strength of the first division is already $%^^, which is why I hardly ever watch it. And this is weaker, forcing out the riders mentioned in the post plus the likes of Troy Bachelor.

A top league performed in front of some tumbleweed would be the result. Although if, as you say, this equates to a championship average of 47, then the sides would be weaker than this.

If I decided to watch Swindon v King's Lynn it would mainly be to watch Robert Lambert. I'd maybe go to see Somerset to watch Jason Doyle. Here's an idea. Let's force them out of the league then. Brilliant.

Edited by Grachan

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12 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Correct. The current strength of the first division is already $%^^, which is why I hardly ever watch it. And this is weaker, forcing out the riders mentioned in the post plus the likes of Troy Bachelor.

A top league performed in front of some tumbleweed would be the result. Although if, as you say, this equates to a championship average of 47, then the sides would be weaker than this.

If I decided to watch Swindon v King's Lynn it would mainly be to watch Robert Lambert. I'd maybe go to see Somerset to watch Jason Doyle. Here's an idea. Let's force them out of the league then. Brilliant.

You sure ? all the people I know who  go anymore don't want the likes of Tai and co to come back ..they want 7 juniors who wave at the crowd and have a pint in the bar after . We got to cut costs so even less people go and we get yes sponsors press coverage etc ..it's the way forward 

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Posted (edited)

Let's be honest. ..

It is probably time to give up on Team Speedway in Britain...

The Sport can deliver a great night out if you just take the racing at face value so just deliver that, and dispense with all the unworkable nonsense that has to go into shoehorning the Sport into a Team framework..

There are far too many logistical issues which have been allowed to become 'the norm' to ever be unravelled so there will never be enough credibility to make it a success..

(That is, without the root and branch radical overhaul that I don't believe anyone in the Sport can or wants to deliver)..

Therefore. Let the tracks run once a month (which might be an increase!), and run individual meetings...

Run at weekends, Saturday and Sunday afternoons,  and put up a good prize fund with plenty of local advertising.. (Would £20k be acheivable?)

Run kids races, juniors, intermediates and experts...

Four hours or so of entertainment for £20. Plenty of side shows for the kids to keep them entertained. .

In short, make it a proper day out and an event..

You could still run GB fixtures with the best performers (or those who just ride in Sweden and Poland)..

The racing at a good many tracks can be superb...

Sadly, under a 'Team Banner' the Sport has lost so many fans there will never be enough people at these tracks to appreciate it..

So time for British Speedway to play to its strengths and not its weaknesses...

Edited by mikebv

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9 hours ago, mikebv said:

Let's be honest. ..

It is probably time to give up on Team Speedway in Britain...

The Sport can deliver a great night out if you just take the racing at face value so just deliver that, and dispense with all the unworkable nonsense that has to go into shoehorning the Sport into a Team framework..

There are far too many logistical issues which have been allowed to become 'the norm' to ever be unravelled so there will never be enough credibility to make it a success..

(That is, without the root and branch radical overhaul that I don't believe anyone in the Sport can or wants to deliver)..

Therefore. Let the tracks run once a month (which might be an increase!), and run individual meetings...

Run at weekends, Saturday and Sunday afternoons,  and put up a good prize fund with plenty of local advertising.. (Would £20k be acheivable?)

Run kids races, juniors, intermediates and experts...

Four hours or so of entertainment for £20. Plenty of side shows for the kids to keep them entertained. .

In short, make it a proper day out and an event..

You could still run GB fixtures with the best performers (or those who just ride in Sweden and Poland)..

The racing at a good many tracks can be superb...

Sadly, under a 'Team Banner' the Sport has lost so many fans there will never be enough people at these tracks to appreciate it..

So time for British Speedway to play to its strengths and not its weaknesses...

Well that would count us out then... Fans do not want individual meetings, they want league meetings, otherwise no matter what idea you come up with the stadiums will be empty..

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3 hours ago, Starman2006 said:

Well that would count us out then... Fans do not want individual meetings, they want league meetings, otherwise no matter what idea you come up with the stadiums will be empty..

This is by far your best post ever on this forum. Any ideas about trying to move British Speedway forward that incorporate doing away with team events would be the end for me.

I support Somerset Speedway team... Not a load of pointless irrelevant races at Somerset as the previous poster suggested all in the name of a jolly good day out! Team Speedway isn't the problem - how it's executed, is though....

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Najjer said:

This is by far your best post ever on this forum. Any ideas about trying to move British Speedway forward that incorporate doing away with team events would be the end for me.

I support Somerset Speedway team... Not a load of pointless irrelevant races at Somerset as the previous poster suggested all in the name of a jolly good day out! Team Speedway isn't the problem - how it's executed, is though....

100% Agree..

However...

Team Speedway will never be ran properly as surely if they could do it properly they would have done it by now?

Team Speedway is a misnomer now anyway, it simply just a conduit to allow lads to earn money by riding as many times in one week as they physically can...

Pretty much what you see now is individual Speedway with riders sharing the same coloured kevlars for the odd evening before putting on another set with a bunch of different individuals the night later who are doing exactly the same..

In fact. Exactly the same as if they attended individual events around the country seven nights a week. The key difference being is if they did that the events over the seven nights a week would have credibilty and maybe prize funds that resonated enough with the locals to attend..?

If Team Speedway cannot be done properly it completely undermines the whole point of fans being there, therefore no real point in attending it...

All the ingredients that go into the actual racing itself can be breathtaking which for any Sport is truly a unique selling point which is criminally overlooked, and undermined, by the nonsense that accompanies it..

All you have now is a Sport desperately clinging on to the goodwill of those who are left who willingly (or maybe stubbornly) let themselves seperate the nonsense from the racing...

Simply,  if you cannot run the Sport properly, then don't do it at all, as you will never, ever, be successful..

Nor should you expect to be. ..

 

Edited by mikebv

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6 minutes ago, mikebv said:

100% Agree..

However...

Team Speedway will never be ran properly as surely if they could do it properly they would have done it by now?

Team Speedway is a misnomer now anyway, it simply just a conduit to allow lads to earn money by riding as many times in one week as they physically can...

Pretty much what you see now is individual Speedway with riders sharing the same coloured kevlars for the odd evening before putting on another set with a bunch of different individuals the night later who are doing exactly the same..

In fact. Exactly the same as if they attended individual events around the country seven nights a week. The key difference being is if they did that the events over the seven nights a week would have credibilty and maybe prize funds that resonated enough with the locals to attend..?

If Team Speedway cannot be done properly it completely undermines the whole point of fans being there, therefore no real point in attending it...

All the ingredients that go into the actual racing itself can be breathtaking which for any Sport is truly a unique selling point which is criminally overlooked, and undermined, by the nonsense that accompanies it..

All you have now is a Sport desperately clinging on to the goodwill of those who are left who willingly (or maybe stubbornly) let themselves seperate the nonsense from the racing...

Simply,  if you cannot run the Sport properly, then don't do it at all, as you will never, ever, be successful..

Nor should you expect to be. ..

 

Using Somerset as an example again, I frankly don't really care much for who Jason Doyle rides for in Sweden, who Jack Holder rides for in Poland or who Richard Lawson rides for in the Championship.... I only care about when they ride for my team. It's irrelevant to me who else they ride for, when and who with elsewhere. Speedway is still very much a team sport in my eyes.

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The BSPA needs to start with a list of what the fans want ....

... and then break it to the riders what can be afforded...

... and hope for a little profit for themselves.

But make no mistake, that is the order.

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