Kings Lynn v Leicester Lions 4/7/2018

[ouch 1,191]

16 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Was going to say surely the referee is the only one who can abandon a meeting?

So are you saying Buster wanted to continue? If not I dont understand your point. 

[semion 2,192]

Dreadful to hear of the accident and injury to Kerr. I wish the lad a full and speedy recovery.  Like JC says, maybe he needs to re-asses what happens going forward.   He has now had a good few injuries and with a young family, maybe just maybe its time to look elsewhere for a living.

I wasn't there last night, but even from a distance it leaves a hollow feel to the sport and makes me, on a personal level, wonder if Speedway is for me anymore.

[Bagpuss 10,755]

14 minutes ago, ouch said:

So are you saying Buster wanted to continue? If not I dont understand your point. 

My point is quite simple, some are saying Buster should have called it off when only the ref has that power.

[Star Lady 5,400]

20 minutes ago, Dodger Blue said:

True, but cant the promotion remind him of a 10:30 curfew (if that's correct) and say 'Look ref its gone 10 ... we aren't going to get this meeting in.

Or maybe an hour befor then with 'Look ref its going to be around 10 before we can start... etc etc ???

Not sure if the 10.30 curfew is correct. I've been at several meetings that didn't finish till 11. 

[Bagpuss 10,755]

There was a meeting in the late nineties against Ipswich which didn't finish until nearly midnight IIRC!

[ouch 1,191]

4 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

My point is quite simple, some are saying Buster should have called it off when only the ref has that power.

So you mean if Buster had asked the ref to call the meeting off as medical covered wouldn’t be available until after 10.00, the ref would have refused? 

If not I don’t understand your point. 

[Star Lady 5,400]

8 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

There was a meeting in the late nineties against Ipswich which didn't finish until nearly midnight IIRC!

Was that the one where Shane Parker helped out with the tractor driving

Also recall one from the Waggy days, think it was a pairs meeting, that didn't start till nearly 10, then the riders pulled all sorts of stunts, tape breaking, 2 min exc etc.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Star Lady
added words

[g13webb 4,254]

No doubt it was in Buster's interest  to continue,   so we can assume he made a case of that point to the ref.     Whereas had he wanted the meeting to end he could have made the point of the missing Medic/ Ambulance, and the Ref would have had no option but to abandon the meeting... 

The Ref can only make decisions on what he is told,    but when you consider he deemed Kerr responsible for the HT 6 accident and excluded him,   I wonder just what was in the Ref's mind  all night... 

[semion 2,192]

I think a ref can be 'advised'  or certain matters or take advise with regard to track conditions  etc, but as has been said It is only the ref who declares It Off.   Though I would think the decision would be made hand in hand with the home promoter.

[Star Lady 5,400]

The home promoter before giving advise to the ref would take into account

1 ETA of ambulance return (which can change without warning)

2 weather( will wait longer if warm rather than wet)

3 profit from food & drink outlet (will diminish as fans leave)

4 availability of dates for re-arrangement

5 curfew if any

6 fan satisfaction (not sure about this one and will never please them all anyway)

• even after all that the final decision is the referees. Going by a comment from g13webb above re Kerr's exclusion I'm not convinced he would have  taken advice anyway

 

[Theboss 727]

5 minutes ago, Star Lady said:

The home promoter before giving advise to the ref would take into account

1 ETA of ambulance return (which can change without warning)

2 weather( will wait longer if warm rather than wet)

3 profit from food & drink outlet (will diminish as fans leave)

4 availability of dates for re-arrangement

5 curfew if any

6 fan satisfaction (not sure about this one and will never please them all anyway)

• even after all that the final decision is the referees. Going by a comment from g13webb above re Kerr's exclusion I'm not convinced he would have  taken advice anyway

 

Some good points SL but I can assure that in situations like this the promoter would advise the referee of the situation and what he feels is best for club and supporters.... And if they did not agree with this there is the option of going over their head.

[Star Lady 5,400]

17 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Some good points SL but I can assure that in situations like this the promoter would advise the referee of the situation and what he feels is best for club and supporters.... And if they did not agree with this there is the option of going over their head.

Didn't realise promoters could go over refs head but that would also take time I assume. 

Last  night was one of those nights that get thrown up occasionally, when what can go wrong does. I think most of the complaining is a result of the way fans have been treated over the last few seasons and not solely based on last nights events. The goodwill of fans will only stretch so far.

easy for me to see both sides (I'm Libran anyway) as I wasn't there

[Daniel Smith 5,645]

Home promotion DOES have a say on continuation or postponements of meetings.

5.3 The staging Promotion is responsible for the payment of SCB invoices, fines, insurance premiums, BSPA meeting fees and prize (points) money. Additionally, in the event that a Meeting is postponed (after 09:00 or other such time as mutually agreed) or abandoned, they must reimburse the travel expenses incurred by the visiting team for the re-staging. 

_________________________

 14.6. The main duties of the MEETING STEWARD (appointed by the SCB) are: a) consultation with the Staging Promoter, Meeting Coordinator and Meeting Referee on all matters relating to the staging of a Meeting and especially at any time when the staging or continuation of a Meeting is in doubt. 

_____________________

14.9.2 During the Meeting (referee) shall: a) consult at any time during a Meeting (including before the commencement of the 1st heat), with the Clerk of Course, Team Managers and Team Captains, if there is a doubt whether the Meeting can commence or continue. (NB. Not applicable when a Meeting Steward is appointed). In the event a meeting is abandoned no further racing, practicing or use of the track is permitted.  

___________________________

While the referee (meeting steward) is the only person able to abandon the meeting it is with the agreement of both parties and home promotion. 

At no point is the home promoters hands tied but I will say British Speedway isn't in a great place. Buster and Dale probably felt they between a rock and a hard place of what to do financially. Saying that, when the stadium was mostly empty at 10pm they should have called it off. Now they've been hit in the worst possible way with another injured rider and more likely more people to never return. 

Yes of course, everyone will and should give their best wishes to all injured rider's but there are far bigger consequences for the sport & King's Lynn for the future.

If an ambulance can't arrive for 3hrs and the track paramedics have to leave the writing is on the wall for the meeting.

I would like to say I hope lessons can be learned but it's the same old story at King's Lynn. 

I will say again, Buster and Dale would have felt like they were between a rock and a hard place, the club failed badly under 

14.7.1 A PROMOTER j) take all necessary steps to safeguard, at all times, the interests and welfare of all riders, Officials and Spectators during a Meeting, being responsible to maintain good order throughout the Stadium and its environs and in the event of a serious disturbance to notify the SCB immediately of plans to avoid a repeat.

Unfortunately, every season these things are repeated over and over again.

N.B. with regards to me not giving best wishes, I have given these personally to all the rider's through other means.

[waytogo28 2,054]

16 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

14.7.1 A PROMOTER j) take all necessary steps to safeguard, at all times, the interests and welfare of all riders, Officials and Spectators during a Meeting, being responsible to maintain good order throughout the Stadium and its environs and in the event of a serious disturbance to notify the SCB immediately of plans to avoid a repeat.

 

I am stunned that such a section in a rule exists " take all necessary steps to safeguard, at all times, the interests and welfare of all riders, Officials and Spectators during a Meeting," it has been almost totally ignored over the last few years at KLS, just as it was yesterday evening. Very little thought or concern was given to the 1,000+ people who had paid to come in. That rule was not penned by Buster I feel sure. Nigel Pearson perhaps?

[sneezy 21]

I was at the meeting as a neutral, we had been to the coast for the day and decided to catch the meeting on the way home.

Firstly can I send my best wishes to both riders, it was obvious to all how serious it was .I am sure everybody expected a long delay, and most were accepting of this.

We had a bit of a drive home and it was turning cold, also as we had been out all day, reluctantly at 9.30p.m we decided to start making our way out to the car, at roughly 9.45p.m, we heard the engines restart and the announcer say, the ambulance was on its way back and the meeting would restart shortly.

Assuming the ambulance was only coming from Queen Elizabeth Hospital, we assumed by the time we had made our way back to the grandstand, it would have arrived and the meeting would continue, so we went back, only for the engines to stop again. So we waited, and eventually racing started again at 10.20 p.m, how I wish we had gone home.

I think everybody had lost heart in the meeting even before the second accident, the track conditions had changed,and the riders must also have been cold, Speedway fans must be the most patient of any sports fans in the country but I personally think the decent thing to have done would have been to call the meeting off well before the restart.

I don't condone the heckling at all but think Mr Chapman should have risen above it and continued with his explanation of circumstances to all the fans that had stopped. He had the microphone after all, so he had the upper hand.

I sincerely hope both riders make speedy and full recoveries, if nothing else I am sure that is something we can all agree on!