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41 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

That is exactly what we need to do , the poles follow their teams , it’s all about their teams, the racing is secondary, when they put on individual meetings or anything other than a team meetings the crowd drops alarmingly even with top riders because all that matters is their team, we had that and bit by bit diluted it to the point now where there is barely any teams , it is great to have loads of passing on a good track but first we need to get the fans in and we won’t do that by making the entry into the bends wider 

I think that post Dean highlights perfectly the difference in point of view between how a Polish person would view the sport versus a British person. 

From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. 

We can't assume that what works in Poland is going to work here. The sport simply don't carry the weight here that it does out there. 

We need to start entertaining the fans. Speedway can be incredibly exciting and that is what will put bums on seats in the UK. Track prep and shape so that it suits the current machine is going to help that significantly 

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2 minutes ago, acef said:

From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. 

2

How long have you been watching?

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10 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

It flys in football, yes better racing will help but it’s not a prority, it won’t get new fans to come, I do ask people with knowledge , it’s ptetty much how I spend my speedway meetings these days , I still have friends in high places and I’m constantly asking them, running ideas by them, some of my posts are not my ideas but that of well respected members of the speedway community, not sure if you saw my Twitter spat over doubling up  with Steve worral last year? But the backing I had for that huge and from well respected people, I don’t have all the answers and I try to base my ideas/thoughts on the fan perspective . To a point it doesn’t matter what me or you think it matters what the people who don’t go to speedway think 

I did yes. It was quite amusing. 

From a riders perspective they need money in the bank. Steve can't spend Tuesday night serving in McDonald's and Thursday racing his motorbike. From his point of view I understand. 

Unfortunately his point of view is totally irrelevant because its not about him, its about the fan. 

If he wants to be professional about it then he needs to see what is most important in this sport. 

The promoters have made it about the promoters. 

The riders have made it about the riders.

You can guess what's missing here can't you? 

Speedways biggest achiles heel. 

Edited by acef

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1 minute ago, acef said:

I think that post Dean highlights perfectly the difference in point of view between how a Polish person would view the sport versus a British person. 

From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. 

We can't assume that what works in Poland is going to work here. The sport simply don't carry the weight here that it does out there. 

We need to start entertaining the fans. Speedway can be incredibly exciting and that is what will put bums on seats in the UK. Track prep and shape so that it suits the current machine is going to help that significantly 

Growing up I was a wolves fan and that’s all that mattered, as a rider I became that team I rode and they became my fans, that’s how team sport works no matter if it Britain poland or Jamaica,speedway football or hockey, speedway is a team sport and that’s what matters to fans, always has 

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2 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

How long have you been watching?

Since the early 80s. More than long enough. 

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9 minutes ago, acef said:

I think that post Dean highlights perfectly the difference in point of view between how a Polish person would view the sport versus a British person. 

From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. 

We can't assume that what works in Poland is going to work here. The sport simply don't carry the weight here that it does out there. 

We need to start entertaining the fans. Speedway can be incredibly exciting and that is what will put bums on seats in the UK. Track prep and shape so that it suits the current machine is going to help that significantly 

I cannot say how much I disagree with your thinking.

I am not basing this on ANY experience of Poland, Polish people or their similarties with the British.

Iam basing it on BRITISH people. And how it has always been and always will.
We want to support a team (and individuals, true) but a Team is King.
We want it to win. And it is the 'joint experience' of an entusiastic crown willing that to happen that gives the buzz FAR FAR more than the 'racing'.

I've only been watching since the mid 1960s, mainly at The Shay and much as people want to wax lyrical about the quality of racing from the past.
That was not what got me going every week. Not one bit.
IT WAS THE TEAM. And the riders; all of which I could still name for every single year.

The racing has always been a side issue ... they make memories true, but the real BIG memories are about the atmosphere and tension relating to the TEAM/RIDERS and whether we could pull off a win or get another 5-1. Scrape or storm it.

It was alll about the 'DUKES'(Team/Riders) NOT the bloody stadium, track or bikes.

Edited by Grand Central
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2 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Growing up I was a wolves fan and that’s all that mattered, as a rider I became that team I rode and they became my fans, that’s how team sport works no matter if it Britain poland or Jamaica,speedway football or hockey, speedway is a team sport and that’s what matters to fans, always has 

I've always been completely neutral. Ive had a go at riding myself and spent many a day at the old Sheffield academy. That given me a different perspective because I knew where the money would come from as a self employed person. In the end it didn't matter because I couldnt afford it. What it did was make me unattached. I'm mancunian but have no affiliation to belle vue. I just watch my racing there because its local and I enjoy it. 

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Many moons ago Individual meetings were held at every track, sometimes three a season at some. But crowds began dropping for these and therefore the promoters ditched them. Team racing was the main pull back then, but that's diminished now as many fans feel riders are just individual riders squeezed into whichever team can fit them. They are merely agency workers now and I think they're getting the best deal from the current position we're in. The excuse that there aren't enough riders to stop doubling up or down is bull. I think promoters just got lazy and was ready made riders now instead of scouring the continent for new faces.

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7 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

, yes better racing will help but it’s not a prority, it won’t get new fans to come,

I've heard it all now!  With an attitude like that you should be a promoter Felton old boy.

Ask anyone who doesn't actually go and, if they've actually heard of the sport at all, they will all say first out of the start wins!  Nowhere is that more true than the UK.

The product is broken, you turn up, pay for 15 heats of racing and if you're lucky get 2 races and 13 processions! 

That's the major reason nobody goes, it's exactly why marketing drives at tracks don't work.  

People turn up for cheap or free admission and then the following week it's back to normal.  Why?  Because you're marketing a product nobody wants to watch.

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3 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

I cannot say how much I disagree with your thinking.

I am not basing this on ANY experience of Poland, Polish people or their similarties with the British.

Iam basing it on BRITISH people. And how it has always been and always will.
We want to support a team (and individuals, true) but a Team is King.
We want it to win. And it is the 'joint experience' of an entusiastic crown willing that to happen that gives the buzz FAR FAR more than the 'racing'.

I've only been watching since the mid 1960s, mainly at The Shay and much as people want to wax lyrical about the quality of racing from the past.
That was not what got me going every week. Not one bit.
IT WAS THE TEAM. And the riders; all of which I could still name for every single year.

The racing has always been a side issue ... they make memories true, but the real BIG memories are about the atmosphere and tension relating to the TEAM/RIDERS and whether we could pull off a win or get another 5-1. Scrape or storm it.

It was alll about the 'DUKES'(Team/Riders) NOT the bloody stadium, track or bikes.

Never felt that way personally and the younger gereeation don't either imo

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Just now, acef said:

I've always been completely neutral. Ive had a go at riding myself and spent many a day at the old Sheffield academy. That given me a different perspective because I knew where the money would come from as a self employed person. In the end it didn't matter because I couldnt afford it. What it did was make me unattached. I'm mancunian but have no affiliation to belle vue. I just watch my racing there because its local and I enjoy it. 

And that’s cool and your perspective is not wrong but I think it’s in the minority riders aside 

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4 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

I've heard it all now!  With an attitude like that you should be a promoter Felton old boy.

Ask anyone who doesn't actually go and, if they've actually heard of the sport at all, they will all say first out of the start wins!  Nowhere is that more true than the UK.

The product is broken, you turn up, pay for 15 heats of racing and if you're lucky get 2 races and 13 processions! 

That's the major reason nobody goes, it's exactly why marketing drives at tracks don't work.  

People turn up for cheap or free admission and then the following week it's back to normal.  Why?  Because you're marketing a product nobody wants to watch.

Absolutely bang on the money. The team element will not change that perspective. 

The sport in its basic format just doesn't work in the UK. Its boring and until that changes crowds will continue to decline. 

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This is what I mean.. how can you forge a link with a team when this happens, just today?

LEICESTER CHANGES - 

OUT Kenneth Bjerre, Krystian Pieszczek, Todd Kurtz, James Sarjeant.

IN Scott Nicholls, Josh Auty, Stuart Robson, Connor Mountain.

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9 minutes ago, acef said:

Never felt that way personally and the younger gereeation don't either imo

Really???
I think you are totally wrong.

All team sport is like this and just as much today as at any time in the past.
In all team sports people have THEIR 'Team' and that comes above everything else.
I dont think I am saying anything perculiar; and certainly nothing that is at odds with how youngsters think.

Just today there was a table in the papers showing that all the PL Fottball clubs Kit Pricing for the new season ... all costing upwards of £80 for Kidsand some double for adults
To be dressed like this years team. It matters that much to be like your heroes that is what you pay.

I know Footbal 'is different' in many respects. But ALL team sports are about team loyalty.... if they are getting it right.

Tuning into that is the future. The only one.

Worrying about the 'track' and 'racing' will get us absolutely nowhere.

Edited by Grand Central

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If supporters are not going to come flocking back then an alternative strategy is required.

Reduce costs and start with the rider then a knock on effect will follow.

Start with the tyres and make them do 2 meetings per tyre.

That might get engine power down and then less dust so the supporter gets a better experience.

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