Jump to content
British Speedway Forum
PHILIPRISING

NO WORD FROM THE BSPA

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

isn't it strange how 15 years+ ago riders could make ends meet just riding for one team and they were on a lot less money than they are today, so whats changed? the cost of the engines,tuning /servicing or whatever you want to call it has rocketed pretty much doubled and for what ?1mph , many say the racing is worse but it certainly hasn't got better as much as I have sympathy with the riders, life is tough,  there has been enough time to see the end coming and to make the bikes cost less to help themselves but riders are not interested, they are happy pouring money out to external sources to have a product which is no better than it was 25 years ago but the answer from acu house will be to put £2 on admission and make all riders double up even more, so as I see it after listening to some on here is to scrap team racing altogether and make it a competitors sport where riders pay to race and earn big prize money and the riders can ride as much as their hearts desire, then the tracks will make money so they can make them bigger and have better racing and we can all just remember team speedway as an outdated concept that nobody really cared about so we signed it off to the history books.

That really is the final inevitable end game though Dean...

And let's be honest, 'Team Speedway' is now a misnomer in GB (and maybe everywhere?)..

It's just an avenue for riders to earn money riding all over Europe and no more than that..

How many times do riders get interviewed on TV and get asked about the score line and they haven't actually got a clue as to what the score is?

During interviews that seems to ask more questions about their next individual meeting than the actual meeting they are in that night!!...

Cook and Harris say they cannot make ends meet without racing in more than one team over here, and I don't dispute that as these are the lads 'living the dream'...

Unfortunately, no matter how you desperately try and ensure none of their teams are effected by clashes, it will be inevitable. So fans will suffer, and the actual credibility of the match they miss will suffer too, which ultimately then means the League itself suffers from a lack of credibilty... (Therefore who cares who wins it?)

Surely therefore it would be better for these lads financially to ride five or six times a week individually at different tracks? 

At least the events the tracks put on will have credibility, no guests, no R/R, on nights that they want to open to bring in the best crowds..

26 Venues could deliver a lot of Speedway over a season to a lot of riders...

The bottom line is a simple one though..

If you cannot run 'Team Speedway' properly then you are better off not running it at all as you can 100% NEVER make it successful..

And you can never run it properly if riders cannot make it pay representing one club like a 'proper' team Sport would allow....

And you can never run it properly with riders having to regularly miss their teams' matches to ride individually elsewhere..

Surely its got to be better for the actual growth and success of the Sport overall (and the riders too), to have the Sport looking professional, running it with credibility, and delivering to the fans what their expectations of a 'proper' Sport is...?

Rather than the current cobbled together adhoc operating model, masquerading itself as a bona fide 'Team Sport' concept...

An operating model that does absolutely no one (Promoters, Riders, Fans and the actual Sport itself), any good at all...

(And never can or will)...

 

Edited by mikebv
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Grand Central said:

Really???
I think you are totally wrong.

All team sport is like this and just as much today as at any time in the past.
In all team sports people have THEIR 'Team' and that comes above everything else.
I dont think I am saying anything perculiar; and certainly nothing that is at odds with how youngsters think.

Just today there was a table in the papers showing that all the PL Fottball clubs Kit Pricing for the new season ... all costing upwards of £80 for Kidsand some double for adults
To be dressed like this years team. It matters that much to be like your heroes that is what you pay.

I know Footbal 'is different' in many respects. But ALL team sports are about team loyalty.... if they are getting it right.

Tuning into that is the future. The only one.

Worrying about the 'track' and 'racing' will get us absolutely nowhere.

I don't think you can say that the team 'comes above everything else'. In speedway, in particular, the quality of the entertainment is important.

Speaking to a Belle Vue fan on Monday (a season ticket holder of long standing), he said if the Aces started losing a lot at home he'd consider stopping going. I think that is true of a lot of speedway fans - they can be most fickle. It can't be a question of the team being everything if you are willing to drop them after a few home defeats and a potential bottom of the league placing.

In addition, if the team is winning and the speedway is excellent that is  more likely to attract more people than winning alone. Even if the team is losing good quality racing will always entice spectators. I am pretty sure that Scunthorpe, for example, pull in more for the racing than for the team.

It is a matter of the team, you're right. But that's not the be all and end all. Get the team and the racing right and you're more likely to be on to a winner.

Edited by Halifaxtiger
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't think you can say that the team 'comes above everything else'. In speedway, in particular, the quality of the entertainment is important.

Speaking to a Belle Vue fan on Monday (a season ticket holder of long standing), he said if the Aces started losing a lot at home he'd consider stopping going. I think that is true of a lot of speedway fans - they can be most fickle. It can't be a question of the team being everything if you are willing to drop them after a few home defeats and a potential bottom of the league placing.

In addition, if the team is winning and the speedway is excellent that is  more likely to attract more people than winning alone. Even if the team is losing good quality racing will always entice spectators. I am pretty sure that Scunthorpe, for example, pull in more for the racing than for the team.

It is a matter of the team, you're right. But that's not the be all and end all. Get the team and the racing right and you're more likely to be on to a winner.

Unfortunately the post of mine you quoted was one trying to counter a couple of others who were proposing that it was ONLY wholesale changes to almost every track that would drive the punters through the door. Hence my rather absolutist tone about teams.

BUT I notice that I did say team 'comes above everything else' ... That is a phrase that is meant to recognise there ARE multiple factors (just that IMHO 'team' is top of that list). It is NOT a phrase used to indicate that it is ONE single factor alone to the exclusion of any other.

The truth is I do agree with much of what you say. 

Edited by Grand Central
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly I believe that a UK Grand Prix event run at every track as often as possible with all riders scoring points ( that add up to prizes ) would likely attract more attention from the general public that does not show any interest in team speedway. This might well catch on - if marketed correctly and create the new fans that will be the only possible saviour of speedway in the UK If it can be saved. That kind of open NO team racing might sweep away 50 or even 70% of existing fans but be replaced by  250,000+ fans of the new style speedway sport in the UK.

Us tired fans ( especially us older tired fans ) have become bored with what we see now ( and how it is run ) and this NO team speedway might catch on. Especially with simpler, cheaper bikes maybe 250cc. It would not be speedway as we know it but that is on the verge of extinction. You would end up with a top 100 ranking ( something as in golf which throws up a new winner to surprise us all ) And Yes! Riders should pay to enter, sharing those fees plus a %age of the gate money. New fans must be attracted as changing just the existing tracks or bikes and keeping everything as it is, is unlikely to work.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If teams are so important why didn’t Cradley at Stoke or Wolves work and why such resistance to Coventry at Leicester?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, ouch said:

If teams are so important why didn’t Cradley at Stoke or Wolves work and why such resistance to Coventry at Leicester?

Well. I would have thought that obvious.

The 'artificial' contrived nature of what was being done meant that they were not teams with any real identity left once they were being run miles away from their 'home'.
Having such good 'lcoal brand' transplanted elsewhere was/is just daft.

People from Stoke wanted to see Stoke.
Branding them as such may have worked; possibly.

Edited by Grand Central

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Grand Central said:

TBH I do not think that the product is dire.
That is really your view, not mine.

But at the same time I do not think that there IS ANY specific thing that can be done to to 'attract people'.
That, I fear, may be an unsurmountable problem.
People are just not receptive to any message on the Speedway front.
And most of the reasons for that are actually nothing to do with the internal workings of the sport itself.
They are much more to do with the seismic generational changes that have occured in the 'outside world'; of which most Speedway folk seem to be oblivious.

One thing is for certain.
It does not lead me to believe ANY of the nonsense you keep talking about altering 'tracks' as being any form of answer either.

Making the best of what we have still has some milage in saving something of this sport.
But that prospect will be lost if people listen to the fairy story that it is the tracks that need changing to drive people through the turnstiles.
That is is just fiction.

I knew it would be a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

Sadly I believe that a UK Grand Prix event run at every track as often as possible with all riders scoring points ( that add up to prizes ) would likely attract more attention from the general public that does not show any interest in team speedway. This might well catch on - if marketed correctly and create the new fans that will be the only possible saviour of speedway in the UK If it can be saved. That kind of open NO team racing might sweep away 50 or even 70% of existing fans but be replaced by  250,000+ fans of the new style speedway sport in the UK.

Us tired fans ( especially us older tired fans ) have become bored with what we see now ( and how it is run ) and this NO team speedway might catch on. Especially with simpler, cheaper bikes maybe 250cc. It would not be speedway as we know it but that is on the verge of extinction. You would end up with a top 100 ranking ( something as in golf which throws up a new winner to surprise us all ) And Yes! Riders should pay to enter, sharing those fees plus a %age of the gate money. New fans must be attracted as changing just the existing tracks or bikes and keeping everything as it is, is unlikely to work.

Totally agree. Some of the better racing  you see on home tracks is when it is an individual meeting. As you say many of us oldies are bored with the format and teams which are in reality a collection of riders with no loyalty other than to the bank balance which is fine, so give them and the punters what they want, weekly racing at every track with the opportunity to earn. As I have said before, tracks should have open licences and start this off with Rye House. Allow them to experiment with a few individual events at weekends and include different classes such as 500 and 250 cc and make it an event, not just a meeting. Good talented riders will rise to the top and if it is a locally based rider then people will follow. If marketed correctly this could be the saviour of the sport. For those who want club racing, watch the Poles and the Swedes or support an NL team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

12 hours ago, mikebv said:

Riders spending £10k to £20k or so on kit to compete will simply have to stop doing it..

I am sure riders like Dean Felton, Jon Armstrong and Tony Atkin for example could show lads how to maintain competitive equipment without breaking their bank accounts or requesting thousands off their promoters to pay for new gear all the time..

I remember PC ( as well as other top riders) often winning races when having to use a team mates bike when they had mechanical issues, PC even used reserves bikes sometimes..

Amazingly the reserves bikes suddenly were 'rocket ships' in the hands of the very best..

As we often see, it really isn't the thousands spent on the bike that makes the difference but the rider riding it..

 

NL & CL should be riding standard sealed unit engines, I read on another thread somebody saying that a rider, I can't remember who, but somebody of NL/CL standard was riding Ash-Tec engines so should be competitive! I've said before that riders of that standard would gain a lot more speed and be faster by learning to be better riders than having expensive tuned engines

11 hours ago, New Science said:

Would you be prepared to accept teams filled with guests / Rider Rep due to riders doubling up in 2 leagues /SGP /World u21 /GP qualification/ Polish fixtures / European Championship/ Euro Pairs etc etc to get back to Friday speedway at Belle Vue

No... but it doesn't have to be so black and white does it? Time has come to commit to BL or wave goodbye, take the Aussies for example, live and work in the UK or live and work in Europe

11 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

Bare in mind, that every marketing initiative attempted over at least the last 10 (probably 20) years has utterly failed to improved crowds over any sustained period.

I remember when the BSPA teamed up with some marketing agency a load of years back and a load of minor celebrities appeared at a number of tracks... I'll never forget the night I saw Hinge & Bracket at Wolves :rofl:

9 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

IN SS this week both Craig Cook and Chris Harris confirming that they cannot make ends meet racing for just one team in the UK.

Time for them to get a job to supplement their Speedway or retire from Speedway and do something else... the sport in this country can't be run for the few who can't make it pay

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The present administration of speedway is simply unaffordable the revenue is just not there and is likely to decline. The sport needs to be rebuilt (if that's possible) from grassroots in a more loosely regulated sport where it would be possible to participate and watch speedway that is affordable, feasible and practicable for all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, iainb said:

 

NL & CL should be riding standard sealed unit engines, I read on another thread somebody saying that a rider, I can't remember who, but somebody of NL/CL standard was riding Ash-Tec engines so should be competitive! I've said before that riders of that standard would gain a lot more speed and be faster by learning to be better riders than having expensive tuned engines

No... but it doesn't have to be so black and white does it? Time has come to commit to BL or wave goodbye, take the Aussies for example, live and work in the UK or live and work in Europe

I remember when the BSPA teamed up with some marketing agency a load of years back and a load of minor celebrities appeared at a number of tracks... I'll never forget the night I saw Hinge & Bracket at Wolves :rofl:

Time for them to get a job to supplement their Speedway or retire from Speedway and do something else... the sport in this country can't be run for the few who can't make it pay

 

Harris could always become a taxi driver and chauffeur people around in his 80 grand Range Rover.  Give two people 100 quid and one will have spent it the same day whilst the the other may still have 50 quid left - I don't think it's a lack of income for those two but what they do with it.  I always remember two professional riders who were England stars in the 80s/90s.  One used to spend an awful lot of money/use sponsors to get brand new gear every year - the other kept almost everything the same except for leathers and guards/covers.  Their performances were comparable every year but I'm sure one had more in the bank!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ouch said:

If teams are so important why didn’t Cradley at Stoke or Wolves work and why such resistance to Coventry at Leicester?

Cradley does work , their crowds have been on par with many top teams, including their hosts they still get more than some teams in the championship even though they are not in the league  and it was not too bad at stoke ,,their crowds were not too bad for a track 50 miles away ,Coventry doesn’t because it’s quite far away and many don’t trust Horton or like him 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iainb said:

Time for them to get a job to supplement their Speedway or retire from Speedway and do something else... the sport in this country can't be run for the few who can't make it pay

 

 

Has to be part of the way forward.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Cradley does work , their crowds have been on par with many top teams, including their hosts they still get more than some teams in the championship even though they are not in the league  and it was not too bad at stoke ,,their crowds were not too bad for a track 50 miles away ,Coventry doesn’t because it’s quite far away and many don’t trust Horton or like him 

Why aren’t Cradley coining it in by running in the NL?

Brandon to Leicester’s track is a similar distance to me and Belle Vue.

Seems fans can put their love of the team to one side if things don’t suit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hawk127 said:

Totally agree. Some of the better racing  you see on home tracks is when it is an individual meeting. As you say many of us oldies are bored with the format and teams which are in reality a collection of riders with no loyalty other than to the bank balance which is fine, so give them and the punters what they want, weekly racing at every track with the opportunity to earn. As I have said before, tracks should have open licences and start this off with Rye House. Allow them to experiment with a few individual events at weekends and include different classes such as 500 and 250 cc and make it an event, not just a meeting. Good talented riders will rise to the top and if it is a locally based rider then people will follow. If marketed correctly this could be the saviour of the sport. For those who want club racing, watch the Poles and the Swedes or support an NL team.

 I have seen Speedway in America and it was a great night out...

From sidecars to kids speedway racing, all the way through to the 'headliners'...

I watched Ryan Fisher at aged 11 or 12 (him sadly not me!), blitz much older lads from a handicap of 30m and the crowd were going mental, latching on to one so young beating his peers..

I watched Dan Bewley last year in the Colts and one particular night he blitzed all the other riders and won every race by 30 - 40m. For the first two rides you were (as a seasoned watcher of the Sport) taken aback by how good this kid was....

However, by the third time you had watched him leave the rest for dead it got a little bit tedious and you longed for one of the others to at least give him a race...

If someone else who had no appreciation of the Sport was there, they would have watched all his races with complete indifference I would have said.. 

Putting Dan off 30 or 40m that night though would have had everyone there on the edge of their seats I would suggest as he fought his way through the field...

Maybe it is time for a few individual meetings to liven up the Sport?..

Handicap racing? 'Devil take the hindmost'? Speed trap award for fastest MPH at a certain point of the track? Two Riders starting via lights at opposite sides of the track like in velodrome cycle racing eg Bewley and Cook at the NSS would split the fanbase too and maybe have the fans shouting on their favourites creating some atmosphere!? 

Maybe Sidecars? Kids racing?  8 man races with two starting gates?  and off track entertainment too, the usual bouncy castles, face painting, fanzone, photo ops, poster giveaways etc, etc, (basically lots aimed at kids)....

Even raffle off tickets for the next 'Team' meeting' and flog some discounted tickets if the crowd is healthy...

Run the scratch event maybe nationally with points being earned through the year track to track with a BIG final at the end of the year (with a BIG prize) for those who qualified..

The level of rider on show would stretch from heat leader to junior I would suggest, particularly if the handicap racing is to deliver...

In short, the Sport when done really well is a cracking night out, and has all the ingredients for any 'layperson' to find entertaining....

It's current crowds are pitiful...

But given the 'raw materials' it has to work with, they really shouldn't be....

Edited by mikebv
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Privacy Policy