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PHILIPRISING

NO WORD FROM THE BSPA

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9 minutes ago, ouch said:

Why aren’t Cradley coining it in by running in the NL?

Brandon to Leicester’s track is a similar distance to me and Belle Vue.

Seems fans can put their love of the team to one side if things don’t suit. 

Because there are not enough available dates at wolves , they had to ride some at brum last year just to complete their fixtures , your just one fan not a crowd, I drive 400 miles a day and I think nothing of it but some of my friends think I’m mad as anyrhingvover 30 miles is a night out, for what’s it’s worth I don’t think there should be any teams running from another track 

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE

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18 minutes ago, ouch said:

Why aren’t Cradley coining it in by running in the NL?

Brandon to Leicester’s track is a similar distance to me and Belle Vue.

Seems fans can put their love of the team to one side if things don’t suit. 

Yes they can. Not out of choice but that is what happens with 'feelings'. I have been one of them myself.

My allegiance changed dramatically in 1986. I went from being an ultra committed Halifax fan of 15 years standing to being a very semi-detatched Bradford attendee in one winter. 

Being born and brought up in Halifax meant that Bradford was always 'somewhere else'. Not my town. Not my team. My team had gone.

Of course my allegiance was severed all too permanently by KC 's death. So I will never know what would have happened over the ensuing years if he had lived.

But within a couple of years i found a new Team at Belle Vue and left the Dukes behind.

And was able to enjoy October 25, 1993 as a true born again Aces fanatic ... at Wolves with very little passing  ...But a packed high energy crowd with so much at stake in Every race and last hear decider which we won. Making it the best meeting i have ever attended despite the racing being mediocre at best.

The celebrations in the bar that night were about the team ... Not the track

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19 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Yes they can. Not out of choice but that is what happens with 'feelings'. I have been one of them myself.

My allegiance changed dramatically in 1986. I went from being an ultra committed Halifax fan of 15 years standing to being a very semi-detatched Bradford attendee in one winter. 

Being born and brought up in Halifax meant that Bradford was always 'somewhere else'. Not my town. Not my team. My team had gone.

Of course my allegiance was severed all too permanently by KC 's death. So I will never know what would have happened over the ensuing years if he had lived.

But within a couple of years i found a new Team at Belle Vue and left the Dukes behind.

And was able to enjoy October 25, 1993 as a true born again Aces fanatic ... at Wolves with very little passing  ...But a packed high energy crowd with so much at stake in Every race and last hear decider which we won. Making it the best meeting i have ever attended despite the racing being mediocre at best.

The celebrations in the bar that night were about the team ... Not the track

Good post, agree fully. I used to go to Sheffield and Ellesmere Port in the 1980s as well as Belle Vue, doing three matches in successive days most weeks. I was still a fan of the Aces but couldn't get enough of speedway back then. Used to go to Halifax often too. I was at Wolves in 1993 when the league was won too, and at Coventry in the 2005 Play-Offs, although slightly before then my belief in "team" speedway was beginning to ebb.  

Edited by moxey63

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1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Because there are not enough available dates at wolves , they had to ride some at brum last year just to complete their fixtures , your just one fan not a crowd, I drive 400 miles a day and I think nothing of it but some of my friends think I’m mad as anyrhingvover 30 miles is a night out, for what’s it’s worth I don’t think there should be any teams running from another track 

Years ago based in Northampton the speedway world was my oyster and I very regularly rode my own road bike to Sheffield, White City, Kings Lynn, Rye House Oxford and Coventry as well as short-lived ones like Milton Keynes. I thought nothing of a 150-mile ride ( which I greatly enjoyed as well as the racing ). Now I live 3 miles from the King's Lynn track and can take it or leave it - not through ill health because I get a lift on the days I want to go. I like many, locally based fans am unimpressed with KLS over the past three years - coincidentally it seems since Buster has been miles away thinking of the whole sport ( even when physically at the track ) and - perhaps taking his eye off the ball at Saddlebow Rd. Not that he would agree with that!

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Ive started a poll on twitter so see how fans view speedway ,as a team sport on bikes like football rugby etc or a motorsport for competitors like MotoGP,  motox etc  m, feel free to vote @deanfelton1

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13 hours ago, mikebv said:

No I wouldn't be prepared to watch teams full of guests...

But then again I shouldn't need to...

There are enough dates available to work around all the FIM fixtures which are put out well in advance..

14 home matches in a 28 week season isn't really too difficult to plan in I would suggest...

As for the TV deal? Running the odd Monday (if TV cannot change their schedule) would mean the usual impact to crowds but it did that anyway...

12 meetings at weekend and 2 TV meetings on a Monday is far better than 14 Mondays....

 

If planning fixtures was so easy this would have been achieved many years ago. Teams will not run fixtures if they have 3 riders missing to doubling up which is norm if you are a weekend track. If Belle Vue run on a Friday there could be as many as 8 other teams riding in the Championship on the same night, cue a multitude of guests. Come to think of it how often do we have all the teams completing fixtures before the cut off, very rarely

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Reading this forum it seems all fans want is a full team of mainly British / local riders who only ride for their team,don't race abroad or in any F.IM , One Sport event. On the night of their choice with a TV deal in place and all for a tenner.

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3 minutes ago, New Science said:

Reading this forum it seems all fans want is a full team of mainly British / local riders who only ride for their team,don't race abroad or in any F.IM , One Sport event. On the night of their choice with a TV deal in place and all for a tenner.

Bingo!! 

I am prepared to go to £15 though...:D

And my 15 yr old lad in for free obviously...;)

Edited by mikebv
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On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:40 PM, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

 

Can there be anymore of a bizarre situation than when the mafia ( possibly the dynamic duo) are being roundly condemned  by fans , press and riders but they still sit tight with two fingers up to their critics.

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18 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

 ok and Chris Harris confirming that they cannot make ends meet racing for just one team in the UK.

 

18 hours ago, KevH said:

Define 'making ends meet'.

How does 'making ends meet' compare with the average National wage?

Precisely :approve:

The thing is that speedway has never been - apart from for the top boys - a full time occupation even during the season. History contains many examples of that - Gary Peterson, despite being a top rider in the NL, complaining that he could not make it pay in the late 1960's, Mick Bell, a championship winner on 3 occasions in the 1970's British League saying that it was 'just a good paying hobby', Dave Morton, a heat leader in the 1985 Ellesmere Port team, admitting that he had to go into the motor trade and, perhaps the most telling of all, Tony Davey - an 8.5 rider in the British League in the 1970's - saying that he would have to sell his car to buy a new engine.

Doubling up solves that problem, but it creates a disastrous situation for the sport in that you either have teams full of guests or clubs are forced to ride on nights when they cannot attract crowds. Riders are simply going to have to realise that this cannot continue, or they will only be turning for one team because so many have closed.

Dean said the other day - and he is absolutely right - that the tail is wagging the dog. Riders simply have to wake up and smell the coffee, realise that speedway isn't a full time occupation and adapt accordingly.

 

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9 hours ago, ouch said:

If teams are so important why didn’t Cradley at Stoke or Wolves work and why such resistance to Coventry at Leicester?

Because, as I'm sure you agree, teams are absolutely irrelevant. It's a line trotted out by people minus a brain cell. 

The declining crowds tell us quite clearly that the racing is the core issue.

You can't sell a team aspect if the product is boring. You address the racing first, get the customer on the hook and THEN push the team element. 

This is schoolboy stuff imo. It's really really simple. I'm perplexed that the majority just don't get it. 

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9 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

I knew it would be a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The post you quoted was just total tripe. 

I dont believe people can be THAT stupid. 

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1 hour ago, acef said:

Because, as I'm sure you agree, teams are absolutely irrelevant. It's a line trotted out by people minus a brain cell. 

The declining crowds tell us quite clearly that the racing is the core issue.

You can't sell a team aspect if the product is boring. You address the racing first, get the customer on the hook and THEN push the team element. 

This is schoolboy stuff imo. It's really really simple. I'm perplexed that the majority just don't get it. 

I'd say that's inaccurate as saying that the racing is irrelevant, its all about the team.

There are those - and I am definitely one of them - who go to speedway just for the sheer excitement of it all and hence go to tracks where racing is best

I have absolutely no doubt, though, that the overwhelming majority of speedway supporters are not like that and go to watch their team. Some will even put up with rubbish on the track every week. That is evidenced by the debate, argument and bias on this forum.

As a good example, I went to Belle Vue on Monday for the quality of the speedway. My friend - a long time season ticket holder - was there to support the Aces.

In my - considerable - experience the racing today is no better or worse in general than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. While I am of the opinion that a better standard of racing would pull more people in, falling crowds are not down to an equally falling standard out on the track.

Belle Vue is easily the best racing track in the country, yet their gates have apparently fallen by about 30% this season. The racing is as good as ever; the decline has been down to the change in race night, nothing more.

 

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50 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I'd say that's inaccurate as saying that the racing is irrelevant, its all about the team.

There are those - and I am definitely one of them - who go to speedway just for the sheer excitement of it all and hence go to tracks where racing is best

I have absolutely no doubt, though, that the overwhelming majority of speedway supporters are not like that and go to watch their team. Some will even put up with rubbish on the track every week. That is evidenced by the debate, argument and bias on this forum.

As a good example, I went to Belle Vue on Monday for the quality of the speedway. My friend - a long time season ticket holder - was there to support the Aces.

In my - considerable - experience the racing today is no better or worse in general than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. While I am of the opinion that a better standard of racing would pull more people in, falling crowds are not down to an equally falling standard out on the track.

Belle Vue is easily the best racing track in the country, yet their gates have apparently fallen by about 30% this season. The racing is as good as ever; the decline has been down to the change in race night, nothing more.

 

Crowds are in double digit decline YOY. Its massive. The majority of fans may go for the team element but what is the majority now? 1k on average per top flight team? Its dropping like a stone so if I was developing this sport I would instantly change the dynamic. 

Speedway isn't adapting. You can't sell a product if the product isn't right. 

I've ran my own pubs/restaurants throughout my career. Without blowing my own trumpet, I'm very successful with it. My guest is KING. Absolutely nobody leaves my businesses unhappy. What the customer wants, the customer gets. Period. As a consequence my trip advisor ratings are through the roof. That is the basis of any business. Stability in the foundations. Make sure the product you sell is bang on the money and then you start to promote and sell/expand. 

This is where speedway fails every single time. You can't sell a team aspect if the racing (the core product/foundation) isn't right. 

I'm not saying the team element isn't important, it is, but it will stand for nothing if the main event doesn't capture your customer. 

I'll say for the umpteenth time, ask ANY neutral with a minimal knowledge of this sport how they feel about it, and they will all give the same answer. They are going to tell you they were bored. They are not interested in the team element. They only come once, because the main event didn't sell. 

If one of my restaurants started showing any sign of decline or poor guest feedback I would immediately pull the plug on any marketing or sales driving until I identified the issue and fixed it. That is called being counter productive and will do more harm than good trying to grow something that isn't working. 

If one of my businesses was in the same level of decline as speedway, I wouldn't be listening to the remaining guests I had telling me everything was fine, because it quite clearly isn't. Just because those minimal fans that attend speedway say they go for the team element doesn't mean that the team element is right, because your declining like crazy! It's an utterly stupid logic and displays a basic lack of common sense. A lot of supporters still in this sport are the same ones as 20/30 years ago. Speedway doesn't know how to capture a new audience and like it's core, declining fan base, is stuck in 1985. Society has moved forward. 

For speedway it really isn't difficult. The speedway is the hook, the team element is the sell. In that order. 

Edited by acef
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4 hours ago, New Science said:

Reading this forum it seems all fans want is a full team of mainly British / local riders who only ride for their team,don't race abroad or in any F.IM , One Sport event. On the night of their choice with a TV deal in place and all for a tenner.

And not forgetting all the riders are semi professional working 40 hours a week to supplement their hobby but allowed all the time off they need to travel to and from away matches for your team 

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