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20 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

 but changing tracks will do nothing there will still be bad meetings even on the best tracks that is the nature of the sport

Completely untrue!  Changing the tracks improves the core product.

Of course you will still get poor meetings just as you get poor football matches.

The problem is the vast majority of UK Speedway meetings are poor at the moment, the main reason being is the tracks are not fit for purpose!

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8 minutes ago, acef said:

It costs what it costs. That's the value. If they can't afford it then they need to step off the saddle. 

I hear you. I get why you'd want to help, but the sport is moving in the direction it's moving in because of Poland and the big bucks. 

That's just too big a fight imo. 

Poland have structure and they gear their leagues to the fan, when you go to polish league speedway you become part of the family of what ever team your at, as I said earlier I have been to some pretty poor polish meetings but the fan experience made it great

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE

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4 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

Completely untrue!  Changing the tracks improves the core product.

Of course you will still get poor meetings just as you get poor football matches.

The problem is the vast majority of UK Speedway meetings are poor at the moment, the main reason being is the tracks are not fit for purpose!

the bikes are not fit for the purpose the tracks are the same as they have always been and even if you were right 90% of the tracks cant be changed

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Just now, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Poland have structure and they gear their leagues to the fan, when you go to polish league speedway you become part of the family of what ever team your at

Absolutely. The team element still works there so their product doesn't need changing. In fact it's only getting stronger. As a consequence of that costs have risen because riders are earning more and so invest more. Supply and demand. That is my argument. 

As speedway shares the same basic principle it means the equipment over here is no longer relative to what they earn. 

But that's just how it is. We don't cut corners or dilute we market a better product so the riders over here can invest like they do over there because they are earning more, and they are earning more because there are bums on seats because we have a better product. 

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1 minute ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

the bikes are not fit for the purpose the tracks are the same as they have always been and even if you were right 90% of the tracks cant be changed

A good majority of the tracks have never been fit for purpose either!

You're wrong at 90% and we're finding out what the figure might be on the other thread.

You'll see the light one day Deano.

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1 minute ago, acef said:

Absolutely. The team element still works there so their product doesn't need changing. In fact it's only getting stronger. As a consequence of that costs have risen because riders are earning more and so invest more. Supply and demand. That is my argument. 

As speedway shares the same basic principle it means the equipment over here is no longer relative to what they earn. 

But that's just how it is. We don't cut corners or dilute we market a better product so the riders over here can invest like they do over there because they are earning more, and they are earning more because there are bums on seats because we have a better product. 

our product only differs because we have killed the team concept, we don't have a team to support anymore only in name , I used to be a wolves fan, who never missed a match, I have been twice this year because I cant relate to a team who has 5of the 7 riders riding for another team, in Poland your team is your team not someone elses team

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3 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

the bikes are not fit for the purpose the tracks are the same as they have always been and even if you were right 90% of the tracks cant be changed

But they are fit for purpose everywhere else dean. 

Panama doesn't have the same footballing infrastructure as England, but they haven't reinvented the game. They still played us at a game of football in the world cup. They aspire to be like us and thats a great attitude. 

By changing the equipment you are cost cutting and corner cutting. It's got to be implemented across the sport for it to work. You can't just do it in one nation. 

The only way to start competing is to stabilise the product by providing better entertainment then you can market and drive revenue. 

And we will go round in circles all night mate, because imo to improve the entertainment we need to sort out the tracks to accommodate the bikes. 

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8 minutes ago, acef said:

Absolutely. The team element still works there so their product doesn't need changing. In fact it's only getting stronger. As a consequence of that costs have risen because riders are earning more and so invest more. Supply and demand. That is my argument. 

As speedway shares the same basic principle it means the equipment over here is no longer relative to what they earn. 

But that's just how it is. We don't cut corners or dilute we market a better product so the riders over here can invest like they do over there because they are earning more, and they are earning more because there are bums on seats because we have a better product. 

investing in what?,longer vans

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2 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

our product only differs because we have killed the team concept

Again, completely untrue statement, our product also differs because our tracks are completely different (and massively inferior).

Keep going!

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2 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

investing in what?,longer vans

Yep. And shiny bikes with neon colours. 

Its the 21st century. That's how we roll now. 

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Just now, acef said:

But they are fit for purpose everywhere else dean. 

 

they are not ,they bikes were the best around 20 years ago , they were the safest and easiest to ride and pretty much the same speed as todays bikes, difference being they didn't have problem getting round any track, but riders follow suit and go with whatever someone else uses, there is a product that has been made but no one is using it yet, if it does I gaurentee some will be killed with it, greg hancock saw it and said he couldn't use it as it doesn't suit how he rides but other lesser riders will see it a progress cause it in theory makes the job a little less work but it also takes away the little throttle control they have now , its a disaster waiting to happen

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8 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

Again, completely untrue statement, our product also differs because our tracks are completely different (and massively inferior).

Keep going!

think you need to spend a bit more time in Poland mate, they have some amazing tracks and stadiums but they have some real dumps too

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE

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7 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

think you need to spend a bit more time in Poland mate, they have some amazing tracks and stadiums but they have some real dumps too

Reality is we have one truly world class track and loads of flawed ones.  They have how many truly great tracks and how many as bad as most of ours?

Stadiums are not the point of the debate at the minute.  A few BV type tracks in fields would be a good start.

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2 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

Reality is we have one truly world class track and loads of flawed ones.  They have how many truly great tracks and how many as bad as most of ours?

Stadiums are not the point of the debate at the minute.  A few BV type tracks in fields would be a good start.

I just watched the 2nd round of Euro championship from Gustrow which Robert Lambert won in great style.  300 metre track, really good racing, but the stadium part is nothing to write home about.... so I go along with you, Stoke Potter, a good race track in a field is a good starting point. Then build around it.

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12 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

they are not ,they bikes were the best around 20 years ago , they were the safest and easiest to ride and pretty much the same speed as todays bikes, difference being they didn't have problem getting round any track, but riders follow suit and go with whatever someone else uses, there is a product that has been made but no one is using it yet, if it does I gaurentee some will be killed with it, greg hancock saw it and said he couldn't use it as it doesn't suit how he rides but other lesser riders will see it a progress cause it in theory makes the job a little less work but it also takes away the little throttle control they have now , its a disaster waiting to happen

So explain a bit more about the mechanics to me then. 

The bikes now are clearly more volatile and have higher revs, there is less throttle control so a bigger track is surely safer where there is more banking and run off to scrub your speed. 

I'm guessing the current lay down is always turning over a lot faster so even with the tap off your still revving high as f%%k in a race. 

Its the control of the motorbike at the lower end that has been lost, which in your opinion makes the bike dangerous? So on a smaller track its harder to get the back end out than it used to be because there is too much power in those moments. Is that what you mean? 

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