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NO WORD FROM THE BSPA

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1 hour ago, mikebv said:

I actually think the racing is at least as good as I have ever seen in the 49 years I have watched it..

The difference between all the riders on show is a lot less than it used to be in the days of '2 point reserves v World Champions',  (particularly given that in every one of those races pre fixed gates, the 'World Champions' invariably chose the best gate positions!)....

Machinery too is more of a similar standard than ever with even the 'lesser' riders using the best equipment and tuners. With only maybe those lads who ride in the top division in Poland having 'special kit' they wheel out on Sundays or Saturday nights in FIM events.. 

The biggest difference between 'then and now' is simply the lack of crowd, which means a lack of atmosphere..

No one will be surprised to see the racing at Cardiff will probably be nowhere near as good as an 'average' meeting at the NSS. How could it be? The NSS is a fantastic race track...

However a full night of entertainment, on and off track,  in front of 40,000 fans rather than just 1,000, will have everyone on the edge of their seats regardless of the fans' subjective opinion of the racing......

Even the 'worst track', delivering the 'worst racing' can be successful if 5,000 a night are there and the 'event' delivers the overall entertainment level that they want from their 'night out'...

To digress a moment Craig Cook has said in this weeks Speedway Star he has invested "well over £100,000" in this season's racing...

Yes, you read it correct. That's ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND pounds.....!!

And if Craig is doing this, to compete with him (and to keep those machinery standards similar that so assists close racing), many, many others (even non GP riders) must be spending incredible amounts too....

THAT I would suggest is a far, far bigger problem for British Speedway than the current state of some tracks...

 

Would like to know how much Cook invested to compete in British Speedway to get to his level.! probably would be shocked! .While riders deserve all the can get ,the money is running out.Harris another one complaining about money.What are Cook and Harris earning when they are riding in Uk,quite a lot IMO .

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23 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

When you are asking for the answer to the problem in ONE sentence I think that says everything we need to know about who is actually 'clueless'.

The racing at Cardiff is at best average every year... yet 40,000 will descend upon it again this year.

The racing at Belle Vue is of the top drawer, as good as even Hyde Road ever used to produce (some would say better). Yet even last year on their preferred race nights they weren't packing the crowds in... this year they've gone down the pan. 

You forget, racing from years gone by is readily available to view online. The racing was nothing to write home about.

The sport has made many mistakes over the years, costing themselves fans in the process. As fans exit the sport the atmosphere levels drop. Good meetings become average ones, average ones become poor ones and so on.

So continue to spout your nonsense, alas for you, there is absolutely no evidence to back up what you claim.

Edited to add: Just to further refute your nonsensical claim, attendances have been falling for decades, not a recent trait. It just makes more of a difference the lower the crowds go.

 

Put Cardiff on every week, would you get 40K going?  (Answer the question)

The tracks have never been particularly good, exacerbated by the fact that modern day bikes don't go well around British circuits.

The evidence you ask for is the quality of the racing, i.e. very little passing.

There is so much competition for the entertainment pound these days when compared to say the 70's, that people will not turn out for something that amounts to a nothing show.

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If you seen C Harris article in this weeks S. Star ask yourself if he retired from Speedway what could he do?

I would suggest not a lot 

 

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2 hours ago, Trees said:

Is it the case that every club is on the breadline so they HAVE to look after themselves or go out of business?

We would only know that if you know every limited company running each track and then download even the abbreviated accounts from Companies House to assess who is in negative net worth territory or a substantially reduced net worth based on prior year trading. I suspect that for many clubs the numbers are not adding up and hence cost controls need to be put in place to make it an even playing field if the sport is to continue at many venues. Yes you will always try and protect your assets but given the many variables that impact on the sport from rider costs, sponsorship, numbers through the gates, machinery upkeep, stadium rental etc. it is a mystery as to why any sane business person would invest almost to the point of having a blank cheque book. I doubt we have seen the last of troubled and stretched clubs.

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1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

When you are asking for the answer to the problem in ONE sentence I think that says everything we need to know about who is actually 'clueless'.

The racing at Cardiff is at best average every year... yet 40,000 will descend upon it again this year.

The racing at Belle Vue is of the top drawer, as good as even Hyde Road ever used to produce (some would say better). Yet even last year on their preferred race nights they weren't packing the crowds in... this year they've gone down the pan. 

You forget, racing from years gone by is readily available to view online. The racing was nothing to write home about.

The sport has made many mistakes over the years, costing themselves fans in the process. As fans exit the sport the atmosphere levels drop. Good meetings become average ones, average ones become poor ones and so on.

So continue to spout your nonsense, alas for you, there is absolutely no evidence to back up what you claim.

Edited to add: Just to further refute your nonsensical claim, attendances have been falling for decades, not a recent trait. It just makes more of a difference the lower the crowds go.

 

Spot on...

Losing 400 regular fans from 3000 isn't really noticeable...

Lose 400 from 1200 and their absence is obvious and stark. Giving an irrefutable barometer of a fading entity...

And when any business has that reputation it really is a huge uphill struggle to turn this view around..

Each track has its own 'tipping point' I would suggest whereby the atmosphere drops to a level that then becomes sterile and mundane enough for those still attending to consider "is it is really worth coming again next week"?

The vicious circle of low crowds/poor atmosphere, poor atmosphere/even lower crowds, kicks in...

And not too many clubs it seems have managed to break this vicious cycle sadly, with it appears almost all currently going through it to varying degrees..

As we know. It doesn't matter how 'awesome' a Speedway meeting is if only 'one man and his dog' show up to watch it...

Edited by mikebv

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1 hour ago, moxey63 said:

Interesting that you think racing is as good as you've seen. This, despite what is a complete lack of star names, thus meaning riders of equal ability?

It is worrying that Cook had to spend £100,000, money that speedway in this country cannot afford. The fascination with points limits is to allow more equal teams. So, if only for domestic racing, how about equalling things out even further by setting an amount riders can spend on engine tuning?

I've said before, set a £10k max payroll for the home and away matches..

1000 fans paying £15 will cover it ex vat and leave a couple of Grand to help pay for other costs..

No superstars probably but then again, paying the top riders £3k a night (£6k for the home and away match) means the first 480 fans (including the VAT) pay just for him!! (Madness! And more than £3k a night can be paid out to some riders if various rumours are correct!)..

Re the racing quality..

When I got back into the Sport circa 1992 I often went watching a lot of National League racing (Today's Championship). The reason was I found it better racing than the 'Elite League' as there was less disparity between the best riders on show and the least capable..

Conversely, I never missed a '4 Team Tournament' in the EL as every race was contested by the three heat leaders and best second string from each team. Hence the racing was regularly top drawer..

In short. Any level of racing will deliver great Speedway as long as the four riders in the race are of a similar calibre..

Nowadays the name of the rider hardly effects the crowd level therefore it surely must be time to set a maximum payroll spend and develop a format that brings four lads of a reasonably similar talent level to the tapes in each race..?

Without breaking the bank.... 

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41 minutes ago, mikebv said:

In short. Any level of racing will deliver great Speedway as long as the four riders in the race are of a similar calibre..

 

Not if the track is fundamentally flawed and pretty much impossible to pass on. 

The World Champ states that certain British Tracks are like that and says that is essentially the reason for the prevalence of jumping the start.

Source:  Doyle's interview prior to the start of the last GP.

Nice bit of evidence for your lot there.

Somebody says get high level sponsors in.  They won't touch Speedway because nobody goes to it, it has no mass appeal.

Despite the best efforts of those that run it, the sport still has national TV coverage, despite that crowds are still going down.  Why is that?

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The whole package is poor value for money. At swindon last night I handed over £20 inc prog, to stand in a dump of a stadium, to watch 15 processional races on a dust bowl of a track. It's not rocket science is it.

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4 hours ago, Argos said:

If you seen C Harris article in this weeks S. Star ask yourself if he retired from Speedway what could he do?

I would suggest not a lot 

 

Financial advisor?:rofl:

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9 hours ago, cityrebel said:

The whole package is poor value for money. At swindon last night I handed over £20 inc prog, to stand in a dump of a stadium, to watch 15 processional races on a dust bowl of a track. It's not rocket science is it.

And of the many, many thousands who have walked away over the last five years - would tell the same story of disillusionment. It rings true mostly for me. I know a proportion of elderly fans have passed away but not that many!

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15 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Would like to know how much Cook invested to compete in British Speedway to get to his level.! probably would be shocked! .While riders deserve all the can get ,the money is running out.Harris another one complaining about money.What are Cook and Harris earning when they are riding in Uk,quite a lot IMO .

Perhaps Cook and Harris can't make it pay because they are crap? Big fishes in a small pond and in Harris's case a small fish in a small pond... don't get me wrong as a Cov fan I think Bomber is a legend but he has clearly been delusional in the last 5 or 6 years thinking he's world class and talking the talk without ever walking the walk. Similar for Cook... if he was as good as he thought he was he'd be riding regularly in Poland or even Sweden

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19 minutes ago, iainb said:

Perhaps Cook and Harris can't make it pay because they are crap? Big fishes in a small pond and in Harris's case a small fish in a small pond... don't get me wrong as a Cov fan I think Bomber is a legend but he has clearly been delusional in the last 5 or 6 years thinking he's world class and talking the talk without ever walking the walk. Similar for Cook... if he was as good as he thought he was he'd be riding regularly in Poland or even Sweden

Sadly I have to agree with you there mostly, as neither of them have been able to really cut it - not that I regard them as crap ( except perhaps poor at world class level ) But as for Bomber's ridiculous point of view  -delusional is about right on how much he is worth in the UK. He seems to believe he is worth about 250k profit here. Most of the doubling up - top riders - have never glanced at the terraces in the last 2 -3 years to see how many are now interested in watching them chase each other ( after the gating competition is over ). I agree with all the dangers of the job, but it has always been a choice they make to chase glory and fortune. At the moment hardly any rider is worth more than 75k profit / nett income ( inc. from both teams ) in the UK - based on the interest of the general public. If there are many more who agree with Bomber they have no chance of acquiring that lifestyle unless and until they crack Poland and Sweden and are "in demand" outside of the UK.

Edited by waytogo28
correction

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15 hours ago, Argos said:

If you seen C Harris article in this weeks S. Star ask yourself if he retired from Speedway what could he do?

I would suggest not a lot 

 

and thats what i would do when i retired from a good paying sport, maybe spend more time in the shed trying to find out mechanical problems from times gone by . a bit of child minding, other than that , as you say not a lot ! 

something tells me he will not be tuning engines unless he gets a job in the garden centre . 

but seriously . he is still young enough to retrain himself for a far easier job IMO

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24 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

Sadly I have to agree with you there mostly, as neither of them have been able to really cut it - not that I regard them as crap ( except perhaps poor at world class level ) But as for Bomber's ridiculous point of view  -delusional is about right on how much he is worth in the UK. He seems to believe he is worth about 250k profit here. Most of the doubling up - top riders - have never glanced at the terraces in the last 2 -3 years to see how many are now interested in watching them chase each other ( after the gating competition is over ). I agree with all the dangers of the job, but it has always been a choice they make to chase glory and fortune. At the moment hardly any rider is worth more than 75k profit / nett income ( inc. from both teams ) in the UK - based on the interest of the general public. If there are many more who agree with Bomber they have no chance of acquiring that lifestyle unless and until they crack Poland and Sweden and are "in demand" outside of the UK.

maybe crap was a bit harsh, Bomber used to be world class but that was 10 years ago and I still believe Cookie can be world class, though time is not on his side. To expect to make a world class living without world class performances is, frankly, pie in the sky, especially in a profession where everybody can actually see how good you are week in week out, there's no hiding place. I'm all for believing in yourself but after 10 years of year on year decline sometimes you need a reality check

Edited by iainb
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17 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

You and the others like you are so clueless it's untrue.  

It's evident that if you do watch the sport you do not actually see what is going on!

People do not go to watch the sport.  Why is that?  It's because it's boring and they are not remotely interested in it.

So, tell me the real problem in ONE sentence.

The bikes are the problem, to the uninitiated (new fan) they look like something from the 1970's, which is pretty much what they are. 

Like it or not, Speedway as a team sport has had it's day and to attract a new breed of fan the machinery and the presentation has got to look 21st century.

The actual track, its'

surface, shape and length is pretty much immaterial.

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