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Hot Shoe

British Youth Championship - Scunthorpe 22nd July

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6 minutes ago, Gambo said:

And how do you ascertain who those best riders are in each age group in the first place?

The same way that you ascertain that in any championship in any other sport. You either have a qualifying system or simply pick the riders with the ability to race competitively.

The BSPA already a Speedway Training Programme in place and those who run that should and no doubt do know the ability of every rider who can potentially race in the british Youth Championship.

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On 7/23/2018 at 12:51 PM, Albert said:

The meeting itself wasn't the best... Great 500 Final though, great advertisement for youth speedway.

Less of an advertisement was young kids getting lapped.. surely these kids ought to be of a standard before putting them in such a meeting.

Yes agreed. Some of the racing was excellent.

It was just a pity that some races were between pairs of riders a lap apart at times and surely that is no good for the riders or the sport.

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1 minute ago, Hot Shoe said:

Yes agreed. Some of the racing was excellent.

It was just a pity that some races were between pairs of riders a lap apart at times and surely that is no good for the riders or the sport.

Nobody forces them to ride. You ask Neil Vatcher, they ALL want to ride in these meetings, and you would deny them that chance?

How many riders (per Class) would you limit these Championship Rounds to?

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At the Championship Rounds they not only gain valuable track time, but also learn the discipline of a structured meeting and all which that encompasses, and not just free practice. Everybody learns more from racing against others.

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2 hours ago, Gambo said:

Nobody forces them to ride. You ask Neil Vatcher, they ALL want to ride in these meetings, and you would deny them that chance?

 

Of course they want to ride, and what's more British Speedway needs them to be riding.

What crazy comments from someone wanting to restrict the chances to develop young British talent.  

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3 hours ago, Gambo said:

At Scunthorpe in April there were 24 x 125 cc riders. Would you have limited that field to your chosen few? Or given all a chance for true competitive rides?

The only meeting  like that at Scunny in April that i can remember was the British Amateur Championship which is totally different to the British Championship that this thread is about.

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2 hours ago, Gambo said:

At the Championship Rounds they not only gain valuable track time, but also learn the discipline of a structured meeting and all which that encompasses, and not just free practice. Everybody learns more from racing against others.

Actually riding around at the back does nothing except demotivate the rider. It does a rider or their confidence no good at all to be lapped on a stage like a British Championship.

The time to learn how to ride a speedway bike should be done well before a British Championship round is even considered and there are numerous opportunities to do that and not only just practice. For example there is are both summer and winter championships for all abilities at youth level at Scunny.  That's where they learn, riding with riders of equal ability. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Hot Shoe said:

The only meeting  like that at Scunny in April that i can remember was the British Amateur Championship which is totally different to the British Championship that this thread is about.

My apologies: ;) There was a British Youth Championship 125cc meeting (24 Riders) scheduled to take place after the home meeting v Edinburgh on April 1st, but the meeting was rained off.

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1 minute ago, Gambo said:

My apologies: ;) There was a British Youth Championship 125cc meeting (24 Riders) scheduled to take place after the home meeting v Edinburgh on April 1st, but the meeting was rained off.

No problem at all.

Going back to April at Scunny though they did hold an amateur championship with youth riders of all abilities which was ideal for anyone from British Championship contenders to those who are still learning to slide a bike. I'm all for kids getting as much track time as possible but for their development it's important they ride in events that suits their ability.

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The Thompson boys who took first and third in the 500 class, if you speak to them and their family, started exactly as riders who you are trying to get rid of - as riders getting lapped in the 125 class. It's not exactly done them any harm!

Also, where do you make the cut off for these riders of appropriate ability? Do they have to be on the same lap? Within half a lap? The same straight/corner? Would that make it a better spectacle? Not really. Yes it's a British Championship but it's also for these kids to be learning to race competitively. It's easier to look good in practice on your own than being with 3 others at the tapes. There really aren't enough opportunities for youth riders to experience this competitive racing and all that goes with it.

At Belle Vue last night, one of the riders who has been getting lapped, achieved something big for himself - he did his 4 laps without getting lapped and was rightly congratulated when he got back to the pits. A small step to others maybe but I'm sure it gave him that confidence and desire to get the next stage in his development. 

 

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When youngsters start they will improve at their own pace.

Yesterday was a fine advert for developing young British riders and Neil doe as an excellent job re rider improvement/ encouragement and also the speed and efficiency of getting through these meetings.

I remember Chris Pusey starting in the second halves at Belle Vue.... he progressed from falling off regularly ( sometimes twice in a race) to staying on for four laps.

Always a 100% effort from him and he developed into an international rider who was a credit to Belle Vue.

Very interesting to find that it was Jordan Palin’s first competitive ride on a 500 cc bike and he beat riders with NL experience

Well done Jordan

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9 hours ago, Gunner85 said:

When youngsters start they will improve at their own pace.

Absolutely and when they are competent and competitive (however long it takes) with others in their age group that is the time to enter the British Championship.

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17 hours ago, alkadera said:

The Thompson boys who took first and third in the 500 class, if you speak to them and their family, started exactly as riders who you are trying to get rid of - as riders getting lapped in the 125 class. It's not exactly done them any harm!

Also, where do you make the cut off for these riders of appropriate ability? Do they have to be on the same lap? Within half a lap? The same straight/corner? Would that make it a better spectacle? Not really. Yes it's a British Championship but it's also for these kids to be learning to race competitively. It's easier to look good in practice on your own than being with 3 others at the tapes. There really aren't enough opportunities for youth riders to experience this competitive racing and all that goes with it.

At Belle Vue last night, one of the riders who has been getting lapped, achieved something big for himself - he did his 4 laps without getting lapped and was rightly congratulated when he got back to the pits. A small step to others maybe but I'm sure it gave him that confidence and desire to get the next stage in his development. 

 

No one trying to get rid of anyone. What a strange thing to say.  My point is how to encourage them by letting them learn on a smaller stage with no pressure.

Everyone should be encouraged and with that encouragement you get better. Yes it's great to compete and to learn but that should be done at Scunthorpe, Lydd. Iwade, Northside, Redcar, Buxton and all the other tracks that provide practice and racing at youth level. It's a learning curve and some take longer than others to achieve.

Many years ago i went with a 16 year old and his Dad to his first ever grasstrack meeting. He rode around in the heats but didn't qualify for the finals like i did and this continued for a good few meetings until he learnt what to do and then he left me in his dust. it took time. He learnt at local meetings and within a few years he was in the British Championship and then won it multiple times. He also had a great career as a speedway pro with impressive averages.

The British Championships should be a totally different level than simply just to compete. By putting kids in to a major championship when they can't even get the back out seems to me to make no sense at all. No wonder we have trouble in this country producing winners.

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7 hours ago, Hot Shoe said:

No one trying to get rid of anyone. What a strange thing to say.  My point is how to encourage them by letting them learn on a smaller stage with no pressure.

Everyone should be encouraged and with that encouragement you get better. Yes it's great to compete and to learn but that should be done at Scunthorpe, Lydd. Iwade, Northside, Redcar, Buxton and all the other tracks that provide practice and racing at youth level. It's a learning curve and some take longer than others to achieve.

Many years ago i went with a 16 year old and his Dad to his first ever grasstrack meeting. He rode around in the heats but didn't qualify for the finals like i did and this continued for a good few meetings until he learnt what to do and then he left me in his dust. it took time. He learnt at local meetings and within a few years he was in the British Championship and then won it multiple times. He also had a great career as a speedway pro with impressive averages.

The British Championships should be a totally different level than simply just to compete. By putting kids in to a major championship when they can't even get the back out seems to me to make no sense at all. No wonder we have trouble in this country producing winners.

‘Get rid of’ as in remove from the Championship. Thought that was obvious. Your story about the grass tracker you raced against- isn’t that basically the same as the Thompsons? The atmosphere at the youth champs is so good for all riders that there is very little pressure on any of the riders other that which they put on themselves, which is the way it should be even for the top riders (all of whom has been through some sort of learning curve in the championships). 

Yes there are a number of tracks that provide practice opportunities but I think you’ll find that the majority of them do not provide many youth racing opportunities - Scunthorpe are good as are Iwade/Lydd but not many others. A few tracks do demo races before and after meetings but tend to have a select few riders who take part. 

That the British Championship should be a different level - as I said before, where is the cut off point for this level? Same lap, within half a lap, same part of the track?

The youth champs is growing in size every season and is now producing riders who are progressing through the ranks in bigger numbers, having kept the same philosophy as it has now. Give it a very few years and we will have your winners.

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1 hour ago, alkadera said:

Your story about the grass tracker you raced against- isn’t that basically the same as the Thompsons?

No. You obviously misunderstood what i wrote. The rider i was referring to was a multiple British grasstrack champion at adult level plus pro speedway rider for over 15 years which included seasons with 10+ point averages and competed in the World Longtrack Championships numerous times.

i've seen the Thompsons many times and they have a bright future in the sport and are excellent riders and deserve their place in the British Championships. They've worked hard and practiced to get where they are.

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