foamfence 2,917 Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, MattK said: How weak will this new league be? Championship clubs charge a few quid less and don't enjoy bigger crowds than their more expensive Premiership counterparts. National League teams charge significantly less and in turn have small crowds than Championship clubs. I'll admit that one big league may enjoy a slight halo effect of being the "top" league, but I see nothing to suggest that weakening the product and in turn dropping the price will allow for crowd numbers to be sustained, let alone entice fans back. Almost all clubs at the top two levels are running at a loss or very near to it, they can only run at an affordable level and as several are likely to close or apply for NL membership, one league would seem to be the only option. It is now about survival rather than anything else. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GWC 495 Posted July 30, 2018 3 hours ago, MattK said: I don't think anyone will dispute that crowds were bigger 10 years when we has more top riders. Whether this is causation or simply correlation is open to debate. Over the last ten years the league has been gradually weakened and in turn crowds have fallen. What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant weakening of the product will not result in a similar decline in crowd numbers? So do you have an alternative to this? A PL with probably 6 or 7 (if Swindon survive) teams will surely be too limited in its appeal to spectators. I know at Rye it was questioned why we had jumped into a restricted league to watch more predictable racing. The cost factor will eventually kill it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,884 Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, foamfence said: Almost all clubs at the top two levels are running at a loss or very near to it, they can only run at an affordable level and as several are likely to close or apply for NL membership, one league would seem to be the only option. It is now about survival rather than anything else. Why clubs are running at a loss in the top division? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,884 Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 8:27 AM, Danny Connor said: Crowds have been stable over the last couple of season from my view. I guess the 1st couple of seasons in the el they were busier but that was because of enthusiasm of the move up. There always seems to be plenty of youths at lynn too. I don’t think it’s as doom and gloom at lynn as it is many other tracks. i hate the idea of 1 weakened league and I probably won’t attend as regularly as I do now. I love having lambert and Niels. There is a jump in class from them to the others. If I have to miss a meeting now it’s a big deal to me. If it’s all 1 championship and the prices are similar then that’s not really on. And I would maybe slacken a bit. the pl is still a good league. Very even really. And fixed race nights have improved the league in terms of more stable teams. Just not attendances. But it’s early days still. It needs people like the team gb branding team, who really seem to know what they are doing, to promote the sport in a better way at club level. Maybe if it was promoted better then more companies would be willing to advertise through it and the teams may be able to make it pay. It’s alright say8ng an independant body needs to run it but it needs to be the right independant body who can come in and make it more vibrant again. Give it meaning and purpose. Lynn won in a last heat decider on Monday and I felt like I was the only one buzzing about it. I was nervous before the race and buzzing after. Where has that fan passion gone? If we don’t care then what’s the point 3 hours ago, MattK said: I don't think anyone will dispute that crowds were bigger 10 years when we has more top riders. Whether this is causation or simply correlation is open to debate. Over the last ten years the league has been gradually weakened and in turn crowds have fallen. What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant weakening of the product will not result in a similar decline in crowd numbers? 3 hours ago, MattK said: How weak will this new league be? Championship clubs charge a few quid less and don't enjoy bigger crowds than their more expensive Premiership counterparts. National League teams charge significantly less and in turn have small crowds than Championship clubs. I'll admit that one big league may enjoy a slight halo effect of being the "top" league, but I see nothing to suggest that weakening the product and in turn dropping the price will allow for crowd numbers to be sustained, let alone entice fans back. These 3 posts are SO bang on the money. Bravo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted July 30, 2018 50 minutes ago, GWC said: So do you have an alternative to this? I do not have enough information to suggest an alternative. Without details of attendance figures, club's P&L and rider's wage structures any suggestions would be meaningless. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted July 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, Najjer said: Why clubs are running at a loss in the top division? What do you mean 'why'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grand Central 2,654 Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, MattK said: I do not have enough information to suggest an alternative. Without details of attendance figures, club's P&L and rider's wage structures any suggestions would be meaningless. True. People seem to be rather too glibly making statements of what is 'needed' or 'must' be done without the foggiest idea of the viability what is proposed ... Because we know so little of the details that matters. I just cannot believe that 'one league' is some sort of easy or even good fix for our situation. It may be the only one available come the winter but I do not look to it as any 'answer' in itself. One of the most obvious things about the current situation is the massive difference there must be between the 'top' clubs (financially) and the real strugglers for money across the premiership and championship. I find it very difficult to believe that enough 'common ground' can be found to combine such disparate businesses within a one league model with any great success. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danny Connor 351 Posted July 30, 2018 Didn't the bspa buy a bulk load of those sealed long life gerhard engines? If the club owned the engines and they were mandatory would that not be economic. I'm sure it wouldn't go down so well with the riders but if they were supplied and compulsory then take it or leave it? at least everybody would be on identical (?) engines loaned by the club. Its a bit radical but it might help Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldRacer 84 Posted July 30, 2018 10 hours ago, MattK said: I don't think anyone will dispute that crowds were bigger 10 years when we has more top riders. Whether this is causation or simply correlation is open to debate. Over the last ten years the league has been gradually weakened and in turn crowds have fallen. What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant weakening of the product will not result in a similar decline in crowd numbers? I agree with you first sentence. Over the last ten years crowds have fallen and in turn the league has been gradually weakened. What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant decline in crowd numbers will not result in a similar weakening of the product ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,884 Posted July 30, 2018 7 hours ago, foamfence said: What do you mean 'why'? Apologies - that was autocorrect on my phone! I meant to ask... Which clubs are running at a loss? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted July 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Grand Central said: True. People seem to be rather too glibly making statements of what is 'needed' or 'must' be done without the foggiest idea of the viability what is proposed ... Because we know so little of the details that matters. I just cannot believe that 'one league' is some sort of easy or even good fix for our situation. It may be the only one available come the winter but I do not look to it as any 'answer' in itself. One of the most obvious things about the current situation is the massive difference there must be between the 'top' clubs (financially) and the real strugglers for money across the premiership and championship. I find it very difficult to believe that enough 'common ground' can be found to combine such disparate businesses within a one league model with any great success. The deafening silence from the BSPA doesn't help fans who are trying to make constructive suggestions. Of course, they control the purse strings and will do what they believe is best for their business ( not necessarily what is best for the sport in the UK ). The biggest problem is that they consistently show that what they come up with is a failure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GWC 495 Posted July 30, 2018 8 hours ago, MattK said: I do not have enough information to suggest an alternative. Without details of attendance figures, club's P&L and rider's wage structures any suggestions would be meaningless. Make a constructive guess then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Whisperer 276 Posted July 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, Najjer said: Apologies - that was autocorrect on my phone! I meant to ask... Which clubs are running at a loss? Nearly all of them and yours is propped up year after year from Bill and Francis's other income streams, that's without what Garry puts in.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
