Slovenian GP Krsko Saturday September 8th

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

6 minutes ago, bill94d said:

Don't understand your reasoning. How can you be "ready to race" 10 metres back? He wasn't "ready". Agreed the others weren't either but that is another discussion. I'm against all this gardening that goes on. 

NO one is suggesting that Tai was ready ... just that nor were the other three riders. It's not another discussion ... it is the same one. They then came to the tapes to the satisfaction of the start marshal so the race could have been started.

[sparks123 147]

4 hours ago, g13webb said:

That must be the worse SGP I've seen for sometime.    When our sport is struggling to promote its existence, why ever was it conceived to  have a top meeting here.  The track was an absolute disgrace that did nothing to enhance the sport at all.   A one line,  gate and go exercise, kills off more supporters than other reason.   It was a complete and utter joke.

The organisers only saviour has to be the most inept and bias  Referee,  ever to grace these occasions.   it takes me back to 1984, when USA v UK at Foxhall,   Eglese, an out spoken ref ,  stopped the race on the third lap, after Lee had taken the lead,  and excluded him,  because he had delayed the start.  It was a complete joke of a decision,  that showed everybody how much Eglese personally disliked Lee.   

Last nights decision  to exclude Woffy was of the same standard.   It was premeditated and executed, totally to give those Polish riders the added insensitive, knowing Woffy couldn't  make the semis now.  I'm amazed that everyone  accepted the exclusion without questioning it, even though,  the Ref had fabricated a rule that doesn't exist...     The 2 min ruling is given to the  riders so they present themselves ready to race.  Once at the start area, they become the responsibility of the (SM) Start Marshall .     He doesn't have a clock to  get the riders ready,   he gives them time to  prepare their space,  then calls them to the line.  When they are ready he holds his arms up and walks away,   thus reliving his duty and handing  the responsibility back to the ref to release the tapes.      Sometimes  the SM  allows the riders too much time ,   sometimes  they are super efficient and the races start quicker, but I have never seen a Referee exclude a rider when he is under the control of the  SM  .       If  we are to believe the decision last night, and riders have to be ready at the line when the 2min elapse,  then the clock has to be where the SM can see it, and be written in the rules so riders and fans are aware of this expectation..   

No this evil referee  concocted a rule, that was  for the sole benefits of the Polish riders who are trying to catch up with Woffy.      When something like this happens, it enhances the public perception that this sport is all but dead…..

     

I think Tai was harshly excluded.  Greg was the same at Cardiff and didn't get excluded.

At FIM events the start marshal will be told what to do (that's usually why they look up to the referee before they walk away).  Should the riders not be pulled up from gate 1- gate 4?

Inconsistent refereeing isn't new to the sport as Greg was excluded for not racing a couple of years ago but Joe Screen wasn't at Bydgoszcz when he let Mark Loram passed.  (Mark would have been eliminated in the format if he wasn't second).

Was it not also a British referee who excluded Tony R when he had a coming together with Mark and with Steffan Danno with Tony falling on both occasions?

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,738]

If woffinden does lose this title he can’t really blame that decision, he was poor last night full stop and needs to improve his gating, the next round is also a gators track 

[Star Lady 5,400]

24 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

NO one is suggesting that Tai was ready ... just that nor were the other three riders. It's not another discussion ... it is the same one. They then came to the tapes to the satisfaction of the start marshal so the race could have been started.

So really the debate is why were the other three riders not excluded

As a point of interest do the rules state what the responsibilities of the start marshall are and when they begin and end.

Also does anyone know. or can find out, if the referee mentioned being "ready to race" at the riders briefing before the GP.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

CANNOT answer your last point other than to say that I attended over 100 riders briefings and it was never mentioned. Most referees said very little although most common was "it won't be green light and go."

[racers and royals 8,723]

Unless the start marshall had been shipped in from Poland- there must have been some discussion between the SM and the referee as to how  he(the ref)wanted the starts to be conducted. As i said during the meeting last night`s start procedure is the same as you see week in week out in the Polish league. It`s always the same 2 things- riders have to have the front wheel right up to the tape and riders have to be pointing the bike straight ahead(normally gate 4 is picked up on this).

[Gavan 5,049]

2 hours ago, Gavan said:

Think you need to understand the rules before commenting.

Its irrelevant if your at the tapes, 5 metres back, 10 metres back , turned around and rode back, if your not ready to race your not ready to race.

Tai wasnt ready to race when the 2 minutes finished...................but neither were the other 3, Janowski certainly wasnt he was still gardening, its irrelevant that he was closer to the tapes than Tai was, he still wasnt lined up ready to race.

Tai had actually just sat back and let the Poles either side do there gardening , technically he was more ready to race then both of those.

By your definition you can be at the tapes , off your bike gardening , but thats ok...............it isnt your still not ready to race as the rules state

 

1 hour ago, bill94d said:

Don't understand your reasoning. How can you be "ready to race" 10 metres back? He wasn't "ready". Agreed the others weren't either but that is another discussion. I'm against all this gardening that goes on. 

Never said Tai was ready to race

The fact is the other 3 werent either they were still all gardening, (possible exception of Hancock).

Janowski was kicking and digging away and Tai was sat bike on one side cooling his clutch watching him.

 

[TheReturn 1,724]

2 hours ago, racers and royals said:

Unless the start marshall had been shipped in from Poland- there must have been some discussion between the SM and the referee as to how  he(the ref)wanted the starts to be conducted. As i said during the meeting last night`s start procedure is the same as you see week in week out in the Polish league. It`s always the same 2 things- riders have to have the front wheel right up to the tape and riders have to be pointing the bike straight ahead(normally gate 4 is picked up on this).

I think this may be the case that the start marshal and referee had discussed how the start process was going to be conducted last night. Which is fine, provided all riders had that same communication. I don't know if that happened.

If Tai and all other riders had that communication then Tai can have no complaints other than the fact the rule was not rigidly applied to other riders. 

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

THE referee and the start marshal will always have a meeting but that does not include the riders, who know that they have to be ready at the tapes within the time limit. The process adopted by the referee and the start marshal last night may be common practice in Poland but it isn't in the SGPs. Yesterday in the race in question none of the four riders was actually ready so the question is why the referee chose to exclude one, and not the others, or warn all four.

Edited September 9, 2018 by PHILIPRISING

[Trotter65 57]

It was a terrible GP..it was a terrible decision to exclude Woffinden...as it turned out I don't think it mattered in the meeting as he wasn't riding or gating well enough to have got much from that race...but the decision was purely made to keep Zmarzlik in with a shout for Torun..very suspicious if you ask me

But regardless of that it was a terrible meeting and I doubt many casual fan or no diehard made it to the end...I taped it and ended up watching the starts and fast forwarding races..that's how good it was !

[James Carter 62]

What a shocking SGP. Made worse by effing Patryk Dudek winning. Nothing against him personally but I do personally hate him. 

National radio earlier this week and the presenter mentioned that he watched a bit of speedway to see if his theory of whoever gets to the first corner first wins. His theory held up so he didn't watch the rest of the meeting and was generally dismissive of speedway. We know he's wrong and then you get 23 heats of crap from Krsko. 

 

[Aces51 2,778]

3 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

If woffinden does lose this title he can’t really blame that decision, he was poor last night full stop and needs to improve his gating, the next round is also a gators track 

They'll have to be snappy then.

[Steve Shovlar 10,439]

Some interesting comments on the Polish speedway site.

Some say the has bought embarrassment onto Polish speedway and it was frankly a disgrace as two of the other riders were also not ready. One said it stank with the ref giving Zmarzlik a huge helping hand. 

A Polish speedway commentator has called it karma, as a British ref threw out Zmarzlik unfairly from a race a couple of GP’s ago (I don’t recall what happened) Says it’s now 1-1.

The general consensus in Poland from fans is that the ref was very wrong.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

35 minutes ago, James Carter said:

What a shocking SGP. Made worse by effing Patryk Dudek winning. Nothing against him personally but I do personally hate him. 

 

CARE to tell us why? Always found him to be a quiet, polite, nice guy...

[Mark 1,497]

5 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

CARE to tell us why? Always found him to be a quiet, polite, nice guy...

How can you hate someone that you have never met.    Crazy.