German GP Teterow Saturday September 22nd

[Col 854]

I'm not old enough to remember Lee or (Peter) Collins at their best.  More of a case could be made for Loram winning a one off world final than you could Havelock winning a world title in the GP era.  Neither are the same level as Woffinden, and I'm not a Woffinden fan.

[rocketrod 52]

Tai’s Charity work goes further than you think. It’s what you don’t see that counts more than what you hear or read about. A lot of famous people do lots of untold work for G.O.S.H.including regular visits to wards, donating items for raffles and competitions etc and don’t wish to publicise this. And I do know this for a fact because my daughter works at the hospital. 

In everything there’s always bad things/people attached to fund raising. Ego trips or just to get some headlines. 

Best ever arguments/opinion run on forever  that’s the beauty of them.  

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,736]

he will be the best Brit ever in 2 weeks time, he has earned that title and as much as I don’t like him I respect what he has achieved in the sport and he fully deserves to be remembered as the greatest Brit the sport has ever had 

[Gavan 5,049]

48 minutes ago, Col said:

I'm not old enough to remember Lee or (Peter) Collins at their best.  More of a case could be made for Loram winning a one off world final than you could Havelock winning a world title in the GP era.  Neither are the same level as Woffinden, and I'm not a Woffinden fan.

Im Marks biggest fan (uncle used to sponsor him as a 15-18 year old) but i dont think he would ever have won a one off final. The vast majority were won with 14 points or more and yes the last two were both with 12 but that included Ermolenko winning his first four races before just rolling at the back in the last one not needing any points, and then Rickardsson in 1994 due to the unbeaten Nielsen being excluded (rightly) in his 4th ride or he may well have won with 14 minimum. I couldnt see Mark around 2000 stringing 5 decent rides together

Im certainly no fan of Havvy but in 1992 he was certainly the most dominant rider of that year. 

He won the British Final

Lost out in a 3 man run off for the Commenwealth Final

Won the Overseas

2nd in a run off in the World Semi final

3rd in the BLRC

The only rider that season who could match Havvy was Per Jonsson, so in 1992 Havvy could have won a gp series i believe.

But i agree with you that neither Havvy or Loram are as good as Tai , even though i preferred the excitement that Loram provided

[Grachan 7,351]

If Tai win's 3 titles he will certainly be a contender for best British rider, but I think Peter Craven would still have a pretty good case.

I never saw Craven ride, but he didn't just win 2 World titles, but he won them in the era of Fundin and Briggs - and may well have gone on to win more for all we know, had he not lost his life.

I'd say it's between those two though, with Collins and Lee close behind. Lee at his best, however, is probably the best rider I ever saw. But he lacked the consistency and longevity.

[BWitcher 12,453]

15 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

he will be the best Brit ever in 2 weeks time, he has earned that title and as much as I don’t like him I respect what he has achieved in the sport and he fully deserves to be remembered as the greatest Brit the sport has ever had 

This is a cracking post Dean, it shows that even when a rider isn't your 'cup of tea' as Tai certainly isn't with yourself, you can still put that to one side and acknowledge his achievements. Fair play to you sir.

[screm 8,052]

Agree with Mr Felton, like him Tai is not my favourite rider and it would be fare to say we have had our run ins on Twitter but should he go on to lift this year's World title then he will surely be our best rider ever, he has the record to prove it after all.

[James Carter 62]

40 minutes ago, Gavan said:

Im Marks biggest fan (uncle used to sponsor him as a 15-18 year old) but i dont think he would ever have won a one off final. The vast majority were won with 14 points or more and yes the last two were both with 12 but that included Ermolenko winning his first four races before just rolling at the back in the last one not needing any points, and then Rickardsson in 1994 due to the unbeaten Nielsen being excluded (rightly) in his 4th ride or he may well have won with 14 minimum. I couldnt see Mark around 2000 stringing 5 decent rides together

Im certainly no fan of Havvy but in 1992 he was certainly the most dominant rider of that year. 

He won the British Final

Lost out in a 3 man run off for the Commenwealth Final

Won the Overseas

2nd in a run off in the World Semi final

3rd in the BLRC

The only rider that season who could match Havvy was Per Jonsson, so in 1992 Havvy could have won a gp series i believe.

But i agree with you that neither Havvy or Loram are as good as Tai , even though i preferred the excitement that Loram provided

 

Slightly biased but as a Bradford supported but in my opinion Havelock would have won a GP series in 1992 as he was on absolute fire and Nielsen wasnt riding at his best that year. The back injury scuppered Havelock as he was never quite the same rider when he came back. Loram again was brilliant and I don't think there was anyone around at the time who could win so many races from 4th place (possibly Screen)

Speaking to my Dad (who's watched speedway since 1965) and he rates Peter Collins as the best GB rider of the 'past' but TW must be right up there. Fantastic all round rider and seems to have the absolute right temperament

[BWitcher 12,453]

Must agree that Havvy would have been at the very least very close to winning a GP series in 1992, he put it all together that year.

Edited September 24, 2018 by BWitcher

[waiheke1 4,295]

18 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Must agree that Havvy would have been at the very least very close to winning a GP series in 1992, he put it all together that year.

Would he have been in a gp series in 92?

[Gavan 5,049]

23 minutes ago, James Carter said:

 

Slightly biased but as a Bradford supported but in my opinion Havelock would have won a GP series in 1992 as he was on absolute fire and Nielsen wasnt riding at his best that year. The back injury scuppered Havelock as he was never quite the same rider when he came back. Loram again was brilliant and I don't think there was anyone around at the time who could win so many races from 4th place (possibly Screen)

Speaking to my Dad (who's watched speedway since 1965) and he rates Peter Collins as the best GB rider of the 'past' but TW must be right up there. Fantastic all round rider and seems to have the absolute right temperament

Sorry but i could never warm to Havvy but no getting away from his achievements and as i said in 1992 in my opinion only Per Jonsson was in similar form.

Thats the only thing i dont get about some people..............we can all dislike certain riders thats normal...............but to say they havent achieved anyhting because of that is a tad absurd to me.

Couple of people on here dont like Tai, Pedersen or Hancock but nobody can take away what they have done in the sport.

Always reminds me of a friend of mine a Spurs fan.........................Sheringham was god when he was at Spurs.......moved to Man Utd and he hated him...........back to Spurs and a god again lol

[waiheke1 4,295]

Surely the only two other post war Brits with a potential claim at being the greatest Brits are the two PCs.

Peter Craven won two world titles, maybe could have won more but gor his tragic death. Most on here seem to believe he would have won no more than 1 in a gp series.

Peter Collins was arguably the best rider in the world in 76/77. His effort in finishing 2nd in 77 is one of the alltine amazing feats. He had a superb record in the WTC and world pairs. 

Tai though i think has to rank above them. Certainly he is considerably better from the start and round the first bend thsn Peter Collins. Assuming he winsca third world title i think it is fair to say also he has been the best overall ider in the world in those years, even if Hampel in 13 and Zmarzlik in 18 would have some clsim.

Woffy has also been superb for GB, even if his team mates mean he hasnt replicated the international success of Collins.

All three regsrded as superb team riders, actually one area where collins was imo better than Tai.

Who would have thought itvwhen everyone was moaning about him getting a wildcard in 2013!?!

Next question is where would he rank against other 3x world chsmpions? Behind Crump and Olsen but ahead of Gundersen and Pedersen?

[one of clubs 116]

Tai will never eclipse PC in my eyes. A potential three world individual championship honours simply does not cut the mustard, when compared to PC's ten team, individual and pairs (that must be a first, two riders from the same club and city) honours. It is as simple as that. 

[iris123 20,958]

Even if Tai wins this year it won’t put him ahead of Nicki imo.Nicki has more GP wins and more silver and bronze medals atm.But Tai has had a far shorter career and could easily end up with a better record

[longlivefrankie 458]

Just to add fuel to fire maybe, there are three British riders who have won  2 world individual championships at the moment 

 

freddie williams

peter craven

tai woffinden

 

if tai collects his third he will be britains best ever judged by the only thing that really matters IMO 

 

just as 

 

Ivan Mauger is new zealands 

tony rickardsson is swedens 

 

and so on

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by longlivefrankie