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Lindgren 2019

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2 hours ago, Mark said:

8th 9th, 10th or 11th is only a couple of points different normally.    No need to change riders for the sake of it.    If Zagar, Pedersen, Vaculik are in those positions (9 to 11) they have to ride again in 2019 as they are proven to be very capable of winning a GP.     There will be riders in the top 8 who haven't got close to winning a GP.

Just make it Top 12 then! Just causing their own problems.With the format there is always a chance that a Top  8 rider might not win aGP.

Edited by Fromafar

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3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

I don't get this sh#t about 9th & 10 th getting wildcard,what's the point of saying Top8.Just pick who they want every year then Top 8 or not.Only in speedway do they cause their own problems.

e.g.

there is no way Holder should have been selected this year on previous years form.

Exactly what I was getting at a few posts back!  It is supposedly the Top 8 who qualify, but then it's like we have automatic wild cards for those who finish 9th and 10th!  I'm not saying I agree or disagree with with the actual numbers of qualifiers, but it defeats the concept if they simply pick 9th and 10th too...

Steve

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It may be to avoid hard luck stories to previous champions who may have been injured during the series, hey but Speedway is full of hard luck stories.

I would rather it was top eight  or ten then qualifiers, if you are good enough in a challenge meeting then why not give riders a chance to prove themselves .

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How about something like this?

The Top 8 qualify for the following year.

Positions 13-16 are totally out of the following year, EXCEPT if they missed out through injury (see below).

Positions 9-12 meet the Top 10 from the GP Challenge (or what is now called the Challenge) in another meeting (possibly to become the "new" Challenge). This meeting takes place at the very beginning of the following year, and includes two wild cards. These wild cards can be any rider, but are primarily designed for any GP rider the previous year who missed out because of injury (missing GP's). Again, if a rider finished outside the Top 12 WITHOUT being injured, he is not eligible. That is why I suggest this is held in the new season, should any rider need to recover from injury.

Steve

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2 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Just make it Top 12 then! Just causing their own problems.With the format there is always a chance that a Top  8 rider might not win aGP.

I wouldn't be against top 10 or 11.     The point I'm making is that some people want change for change sake.   Why get rid of Vaculik and Pedersen when the replacements have little chance of winning a GP or even shaking up the podium.     

Lambert is a very good young rider but maybe a year too soon for him.   At the World Cup he didn't score heavily either day.  Can you honestyly see him winning a 2019 GP.   I can't.  

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1 hour ago, Mark said:

I wouldn't be against top 10 or 11.     The point I'm making is that some people want change for change sake.   Why get rid of Vaculik and Pedersen when the replacements have little chance of winning a GP or even shaking up the podium.     

Lambert is a very good young rider but maybe a year too soon for him.   At the World Cup he didn't score heavily either day.  Can you honestyly see him winning a 2019 GP.   I can't.  

Surely is not about winning a GP ,it's about getting stuck in and he would certainly ruffle the feathers off  a few "old timers" going through motions .Can you see Hancock winning another GP, if so ,I would say that Lambert could win one with the format.Smarslik did it 1st time.I do agree that Vaculik,Zager and Pedersen are still worth a place but if you make rules saying Top8 ,too me if you don't make the cut you should not be in it the next season.Maybe 9th- 12th this season should be seeded to GP Challenge next season,as they are obviousGP standard.No easy answer IMO .

 

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Actually I dont see an awful lot wrong with the set up we have currently.
If only it operated with a little more sporting integrity.
Top 8 being needed to ensure qualification and those below that have to sweat it out for a wild card pick (or have put themselves through the qulifiers as a safety net).
Top 3 from the Challenge and 4 honestly chosen wildcards is also fine.

The two real flaws I can see are

1) The strange way in which the qualifers were done and dusted so early in the season this year.
It has totally spolied the drama  and means that some riders know that they are in for next year when this years series was only at the half way point.
Daft.

2) The independent nature of the 'picks' is just bogus. Despite what some here will claim.
The picking of Holder last October was a sporting disgrace.
Thankfully he has not helped to hide the blushes of those who picked him with a rush of 'form' and he should be gone by the year end.
Sadly reputations have been tarnished irrevocably.

 

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16 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Surely is not about winning a GP ,it's about getting stuck in and he would certainly ruffle the feathers off  a few "old timers" going through motions .Can you see Hancock winning another GP, if so ,I would say that Lambert could win one with the format.Smarslik did it 1st time.I do agree that Vaculik,Zager and Pedersen are still worth a place but if you make rules saying Top8 ,too me if you don't make the cut you should not be in it the next season.Maybe 9th- 12th this season should be seeded to GP Challenge next season,as they are obviousGP standard.No easy answer IMO .

 

Hancock rides safely now but has reached a final in 2018, a few semi's and is in the top 8.   I'm not a fan but who can argue with the statistics.    I'd dispute Pedersen, Zagar, Doyle and Vaculik are going through the motions.   They all ride hard and add to the series.      I can't see Robert Lambert winning a GP in 2019 if he gets a wild card.   His record at Cardiff and in the SoN was modest.  You have to judge him at top level.   He is very good but maybe one more season in the Euro's ?    Be pleased to be proved wrong.

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4 minutes ago, Mark said:

Hancock rides safely now but has reached a final in 2018, a few semi's and is in the top 8.   I'm not a fan but who can argue with the statistics.    I'd dispute Pedersen, Zagar, Doyle and Vaculik are going through the motions.   They all ride hard and add to the series.      I can't see Robert Lambert winning a GP in 2019 if he gets a wild card.   His record at Cardiff and in the SoN was modest.  You have to judge him at top level.   He is very good but maybe one more season in the Euro's ?    Be pleased to be proved wrong.

What I saying is Lambert is on the up and would add something to the series,there are afew Young Poles that would do the same, its not about whether they can Actualy win a GP in 1st season.

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Just now, Fromafar said:

What I saying is Lambert is on the up and would add something to the series,there are afew Young Poles that would do the same, its not about whether they can Actualy win a GP in 1st season.

See your point but is changing Vaculik or Pedersen, proven to reach and win a final, for Lambert or another Pole a benefit.   I'd argue not.   We've done this to death now so maybe we should see what happens in October.     All the best.

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There is no way Freddie won't get a Wildcard if he doesn't finish top 8.... Which he probably will. He is being primed as the new SGP panto bad guy.

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2 hours ago, Grand Central said:

Actually I dont see an awful lot wrong with the set up we have currently.
If only it operated with a little more sporting integrity.
Top 8 being needed to ensure qualification and those below that have to sweat it out for a wild card pick (or have put themselves through the qulifiers as a safety net).
Top 3 from the Challenge and 4 honestly chosen wildcards is also fine.

The two real flaws I can see are

1) The strange way in which the qualifers were done and dusted so early in the season this year.
It has totally spolied the drama  and means that some riders know that they are in for next year when this years series was only at the half way point.
Daft.

2) The independent nature of the 'picks' is just bogus. Despite what some here will claim.
The picking of Holder last October was a sporting disgrace.
Thankfully he has not helped to hide the blushes of those who picked him with a rush of 'form' and he should be gone by the year end.
Sadly reputations have been tarnished irrevocably.

 

This. Surely the test of the qualification system is does it allow for the best possible field, taking into account the need for some level of diversity of nationalities.

Who is missing this year that would have added to the series and been capable of finishing top 10? Hampel? Don't think Madsen, Milik,Lambert, Drabik, Puk or Lindback would be ahead of Doyle in the standings.

And tbh it's a long time since we have had a terrible wild card pick. You can argue about Holder, but he's just missed out on the podium the previous season. And he's riding better this year than Lebedevs, who a long eith Milik would have been the popular alternative. 

Maybe the only issue with the pick season is the "monster factor" - but imo this is more perception than fact. People saying Greg would only get a pick due to sponsorship are overlooking the guys record (and he's a long way from being my favourite rider)

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5 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

Maybe the only issue with the pick season is the "monster factor" - but imo this is more perception than fact. People saying Greg would only get a pick due to sponsorship are overlooking the guys record (and he's a long way from being my favourite rider)

On another thread another poster has just described the bloke from Monster as 'an absolute penis of a man'.

I am unsure whether this is more perception than fact.

But it does seem a reasonable conclusion from the evidence.

Edited by Grand Central
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9 hours ago, Mark said:

See your point but is changing Vaculik or Pedersen, proven to reach and win a final, for Lambert or another Pole a benefit.   I'd argue not.   We've done this to death now so maybe we should see what happens in October.     All the best.

agree:t:

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