Scorpions v Sheffield 31.08.2018 7.30pm

[montie 1,273]

43 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

The one where you don’t get a facility for missing a meeting for driving. For FIM longtrack events you only get a facility for the day of practise and the day of the meeting, the practise and the meeting is both on today. Suprised Godfrey has let it happen to be honest but it’s Speedway after all... the most amateur proffesional sport in the world...no wonder nobody takes the sport seriously from the outside anymore.

99.9%of folk from outside wouldn't have a bloody clue what your moaning about so your point is flawed

What most folk from outside would have thought last night was what great racing that was a fab night's entertainment

[IronScorpion 1,407]

2 hours ago, The Third Man said:

So which rules have been broken, the one that says you cant drive to continental meetings you must have the money to fly?

where is that in the rule book

He has the money for diesel & ferry crossings though.

[Blackadder 280]

The facility for James Shanes is something that the SCB should comment on.

[bigcatdiary 3,164]

25 minutes ago, Blackadder said:

The facility for James Shanes is something that the SCB should comment on.

Never mind about commenting, the SCB should be taking the clubs concerned to task for deliberately flouting the speedway regulations to their own end.

16.5.1 A Team may utilise a "Facility" to cover the absence of a Rider(s) who:
k) is on FIM Longtrack Championship duty (for the day of the Meeting only; no facility
is permitted for practice day).

Its pretty clear a facility only covers for the day of the meeting itself (today Saturday 1st September) so the facility granted by the BSPA MC is totally against the rules.

The fact that this decision was made by the MC two of which are the promoters of the two clubs concerned Scunthorpe & Sheffield frankly makes it worse, just how long does this crap have to go on before the SCB actually start doing their job properly.

As others have said the sport is currently lurching from one disaster to another.

[The Third Man 2,213]

1 hour ago, IronScorpion said:

He has the money for diesel & ferry crossings though.

Think his bikes would have to go that way anyway, so not much extra for an extra person

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

45 minutes ago, Blackadder said:

The facility for James Shanes is something that the SCB should comment on.

But we all know they won't.

[lucifer sam 3,953]

Fantastic meeting last night with a late, late comeback from Scorpions.

Heat 15 will stick in the memory for a long time.

[Cue Ball 416]

Just thinking - is there a difference between the World Long Track Championship which is covered by Rule 16.5.1(K) - isn't that the individual world championship? Whereas Shanes is riding in the Team Long Track World Cup - 2 different things?

Looks like signing on was from 11am this morning and if he wanted to practice his bikes had to be there for between 11am and 12.10 for examination. I would guess that if you want to practice, you had to have your bike checked and to get your bike checked you had to have signed on first...? which I would guess means that he couldn't have flown out this morning and got to practice. I have no idea if that is an accurate hypothesis or not. Seem to remember in the GPs that Harris didn't always practice

[racers and royals 8,717]

57 minutes ago, Cue Ball said:

Just thinking - is there a difference between the World Long Track Championship which is covered by Rule 16.5.1(K) - isn't that the individual world championship? Whereas Shanes is riding in the Team Long Track World Cup - 2 different things?

Looks like signing on was from 11am this morning and if he wanted to practice his bikes had to be there for between 11am and 12.10 for examination. I would guess that if you want to practice, you had to have your bike checked and to get your bike checked you had to have signed on first...? which I would guess means that he couldn't have flown out this morning and got to practice. I have no idea if that is an accurate hypothesis or not. Seem to remember in the GPs that Harris didn't always practice

That`s an interesting question the rule as quoted has not changed for years however if one went back 5/6 years the " Longtrack championship duty" actually meant the final rounds(normally 4 or 5) there was definitely no facility for anyone missing the

qualification rounds

the challenge

the team final

Why ,when and how it changed i cannot answer but it most certainly has. 

[lucifer sam 3,953]

17 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

That`s an interesting question the rule as quoted has not changed for years however if one went back 5/6 years the " Longtrack championship duty" actually meant the final rounds(normally 4 or 5) there was definitely no facility for anyone missing the

qualification rounds

the challenge

the team final

Why ,when and how it changed i cannot answer but it most certainly has. 

Seems you've slipped one for once, R&R.  You've been banging on about 16.5.1 k) when actually it's not relevant at all

I'm guessing, but I think Shanes' absence is covered under:

16.5 FACILITIES

16.5.1 A Team may utilise a "Facility" to cover the absence of a Rider(s) who:

f) is recalled in accordance with the FIM ISLB Regulations.

From what I recall of the old rule, this has replaced the bit where a valid reason was if a country had recalled him for international duty.  I think the ISLB agreement these days would cover a Dane for a couple of days before he was representing Denmark, etc.  It seems reasonable that a British rider would also be covered, if he was representing GB.

In any case, it's common sense that there should be a facility for Shanes.  He's riding for his country.

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by lucifer sam

[racers and royals 8,717]

2 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Seems you've slipped one for once, R&R.  You've been banging on about 16.5.1 k) when actually it's not relevant at all

I'm guessing, but I think Shanes' absence is covered under:

16.5 FACILITIES

16.5.1 A Team may utilise a "Facility" to cover the absence of a Rider(s) who:

f) is recalled in accordance with the FIM ISLB Regulations.

From what I recall of the old rule, this has replaced the bit where a valid reason was if a country had recalled him for international duty.  I think the ISLB agreement these days would cover a Dane for a couple of days before he was representing Denmark, etc.  It seems reasonable that a British rider would also be covered, if he was representing GB.

 

I`ve not slipped up at all- you tried the same when it happened before with Richard Hall. There is ONE rule about Longtrack racing in the SPEEDWAY REGS  and that rule is there for a reason-

which i hope even you can understand that riders cannot have a facility for any day other than the day of the meeting.That rule cannot be over ruled.

[lucifer sam 3,953]

29 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

I`ve not slipped up at all- you tried the same when it happened before with Richard Hall. There is ONE rule about Longtrack racing in the SPEEDWAY REGS  and that rule is there for a reason-

which i hope even you can understand that riders cannot have a facility for any day other than the day of the meeting.That rule cannot be over ruled.

I don't recall the Hall occasion - I think that pre-dated me.

But we were allowed a guest for David Howe (in 2014?), because it was a re-arranged Scorpions' match and David had written confirmation from the ACU stating he was riding for his country.  Under the old wording of the rule, that covered it.

In contrast, we didn't have that for Theo Pijper (in 2015?), and Scunthorpe were forced into placing a 28-day-ban on him, so be able to cover for him.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with Sheffield having a facility for Shanes last night, for a re-arranged fixture, when he's representing his country. Common sense says that should be allowed.  Only one sub-heading of 16.5.1 needs to be satisfied - not every single last one.  16.5.1 f) looks most likely.

Edited September 1, 2018 by lucifer sam

[racers and royals 8,717]

2 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

I don't recall the Hall occasion - I think that pre-dated me.

But we were allowed a guest for David Howe (in 2014?), because it was a re-arranged Scorpions' match and David had written confirmation from the ACU stating he was riding for his country.  Under the old wording of the rule, that covered it.

In contrast, we didn't have that for Theo Pijper (in 2015?), and Scunthorpe were forced into placing a 28-day-ban on him, so be able to cover for him.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with Sheffield having a facility for Shanes last night, for a re-arranged fixture, when he's representing his country. Common sense says that should be allowed.  Only one sub-heading of 16.5.1 needs to be satisfied - not every single last one.  16.5.1 f) looks most likely.

Obviously i agree with the facility on race day- however this ruling can only have come from the ACU and in my opinion the SCB/BSPA should have told them in no uncertain terms that the SPEEDWAY rule book covers LONGTRACK RACING ADEQUATELY and to keep there nose out. If i`m completely wrong with that assumption then it would be good if the BSPA/SCB clarified it once and for all.

ps it was David Howe and not Hall- it was him some years ago.  

[lucifer sam 3,953]

4 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Obviously i agree with the facility on race day- however this ruling can only have come from the ACU and in my opinion the SCB/BSPA should have told them in no uncertain terms that the SPEEDWAY rule book covers LONGTRACK RACING ADEQUATELY and to keep there nose out. If i`m completely wrong with that assumption then it would be good if the BSPA/SCB clarified it once and for all.

ps it was David Howe and not Hall- it was him some years ago.  

In the case of David Howe, there was a letter from the ACU.

[JCookie 753]

56 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Seems you've slipped one for once, R&R.  You've been banging on about 16.5.1 k) when actually it's not relevant at all

I'm guessing, but I think Shanes' absence is covered under:

16.5 FACILITIES

16.5.1 A Team may utilise a "Facility" to cover the absence of a Rider(s) who:

f) is recalled in accordance with the FIM ISLB Regulations.

From what I recall of the old rule, this has replaced the bit where a valid reason was if a country had recalled him for international duty.  I think the ISLB agreement these days would cover a Dane for a couple of days before he was representing Denmark, etc.  It seems reasonable that a British rider would also be covered, if he was representing GB.

In any case, it's common sense that there should be a facility for Shanes.  He's riding for his country.

 

Out of curiosity, what does the ISLB stand for?