Premiership, Championship, what's the difference?

[redlead 104]

Looking through the list of riders in the Premiership, only around 12 are full time PL riders, the rest are double up riders. Shows how far the standard has dropped, not long ago, top div 2 riders were promoted to reserves in div 1. Also means the running just one league would be just about impossible as there won't be enough riders to fill 20 teams. 

[Grachan 7,314]

It's a two way thing. Yes, the top flight is weaker these days, but the lower flight is also getting way above its own station and seems to be trying to set itself up as a competitor to the top flight by bringing in international standard riders.

It's not all "doubling up". There are riders like Nick Morris, Craig Cook etc who could never be seen as doubling-up riders and should not be riding in the lower flight.

[ouch 1,191]

Leicester ‘s team total for September is 37.62, multiply that by the PL/CL conversion rate and it gives a CL total of 48.91.

The highest current CL team is Edinburgh with a total of 45.64 so not much in it. 

 

[Daniel Smith 5,645]

58 minutes ago, Grachan said:

It's a two way thing. Yes, the top flight is weaker these days, but the lower flight is also getting way above its own station and seems to be trying to set itself up as a competitor to the top flight by bringing in international standard riders.

It's not all "doubling up". There are riders like Nick Morris, Craig Cook etc who could never be seen as doubling-up riders and should not be riding in the lower flight.

Rory Schlein, Craig Cook, Chris Harris, Scott Nicholls, Danny King, Nick Morris, Nicoli Klindt, Stevie Worrall and now, probably Dan Bewley in 2019.

These guys are doubling down rather than up. These rider's in theory are way above the Championship level.

In saying that, I'll always believe that rider's that don't compete on the continent should be allowed to ride both British divisions.

More than the Premiership getting weaker, it's more the Championship getting stronger. The better rider's in the 2nd tier continue at that level so it doesn't cut off an income if things don't go to plan abroad, i.e Craig Cook.

[IronScorpion 1,407]

It seems it is close to 2 riders. In the premiership, they have 1 top rider & in the Championship they have a NL rider( some have 2). Otherwise, most teams have 5 or 6 riders that are or have doubled up/down this year.

[Grachan 7,314]

8 minutes ago, IronScorpion said:

It seems it is close to 2 riders. In the premiership, they have 1 top rider & in the Championship they have a NL rider( some have 2). Otherwise, most teams have 5 or 6 riders that are or have doubled up/down this year.

At the start of last year, it worked out that if Swindon had replaced Jason Doyle with a NL rider at the start of the year, then they would have been a Championship strength side.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Grachan

[Barrow Boy 2 172]

5 hours ago, redlead said:

Looking through the list of riders in the Premiership, only around 12 are full time PL riders, the rest are double up riders. Shows how far the standard has dropped, not long ago, top div 2 riders were promoted to reserves in div 1. Also means the running just one league would be just about impossible as there won't be enough riders to fill 20 teams. 

There are currently 18 teams running in the top 2 divisions which if the all ran in 2019, 126 riders are required to fill them. It is however quite likely that not all will continue but if they do then there will be a shortage of 35 riders based on all those currently riding. If however teams comprise  of just 6 riders then there will be a shortage of just 18 which can be covered by more overseas riders being attracted to join and or by using the top National League riders as reserves. It is possible to use the existing 15 heat format for 6 man teams because it is done now when teams use rider replacement.

[Daniel Smith 5,645]

35 minutes ago, Barrow Boy 2 said:

There are currently 18 teams running in the top 2 divisions which if the all ran in 2019, 126 riders are required to fill them. It is however quite likely that not all will continue but if they do then there will be a shortage of 35 riders based on all those currently riding. If however teams comprise  of just 6 riders then there will be a shortage of just 18 which can be covered by more overseas riders being attracted to join and or by using the top National League riders as reserves. It is possible to use the existing 15 heat format for 6 man teams because it is done now when teams use rider replacement.

15 heats, heats 14 and 15 nominated races. Top 2 in the averages can't ride heat 14, bottom 2 in the averages can't ride heat 15.

[IronScorpion 1,407]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

15 heats, heats 14 and 15 nominated races. Top 2 in the averages can't ride heat 14, bottom 2 in the averages can't ride heat 15.

??????????????????? Heats 13 & 14 are nominated, heat 15 is top scorerers

[IronScorpion 1,407]

I have not fully read the SS but going by what has been said about FNR, surely if 7 or 8 teams come to tapes in 2019 then 1 league riding on Monday only( to avoid Danish leagues) leaving Championship to ride thur, fri, sat & sun  riding once only. This makes Rye House possible to ride CL on Saturdays. There is also the issue of what is happening to lakeside or other teams moving up from NL to CL & if possible teams from CL to PL. Eastbourne & Kent come in to these categories. The likes of Rye House moving to Saturdays in the CL is what I would think is the norm but we need teams to move up to the PL for TV rights to make the 8 teams. Riding on Mondays twice avoiding Denmark but similar to Poland takes away some riders in two leagues bue making a larger PL riding  home & away just the once. Other teams making up the CL could be Birmingham & Eastbourne making the  PL about 7 or 8 teams & the CL about 13 or 14. This will also help in rider availability. We would just need to make a rule for British riders per team whether 3 or 4.

[Barrow Boy 2 172]

11 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

I have not fully read the SS but going by what has been said about FNR, surely if 7 or 8 teams come to tapes in 2019 then 1 league riding on Monday only( to avoid Danish leagues) leaving Championship to ride thur, fri, sat & sun  riding once only. This makes Rye House possible to ride CL on Saturdays. There is also the issue of what is happening to lakeside or other teams moving up from NL to CL & if possible teams from CL to PL. Eastbourne & Kent come in to these categories. The likes of Rye House moving to Saturdays in the CL is what I would think is the norm but we need teams to move up to the PL for TV rights to make the 8 teams. Riding on Mondays twice avoiding Denmark but similar to Poland takes away some riders in two leagues bue making a larger PL riding  home & away just the once. Other teams making up the CL could be Birmingham & Eastbourne making the  PL about 7 or 8 teams & the CL about 13 or 14. This will also help in rider availability. We would just need to make a rule for British riders per team whether 3 or 4.

8 teams is not enough. There has to be more variety. The same teams keep riding each other and it becomes monotonous. Be nice to see different teams bringing more away fans.

[waytogo28 2,054]

There is little or no difference between them except they do not ride against each other. The two leagues of 14 teams mooted for 2019 should improve things for existing fans but of course, will not pull in new ones. Hopefully with no doubling down.

[iainb 4,962]

On the face of it there's not much difference but then look back at last year's relegation play off and there's your answer

Edited August 31, 2018 by iainb

[Byker Biker 468]

On 8/30/2018 at 11:56 AM, redlead said:

Looking through the list of riders in the Premiership, only around 12 are full time PL riders, the rest are double up riders. Shows how far the standard has dropped, not long ago, top div 2 riders were promoted to reserves in div 1. Also means the running just one league would be just about impossible as there won't be enough riders to fill 20 teams. 

What's the difference? Between 2 and 4 quid on the gate, that's all!

[Aces51 2,778]

Of course there's a difference. Many of the riders may be the same but if you use CL averages, either real or converted using the 1.3 factor for those riders who have only a PL average, then a CL team building limit of 42.50 equates to 55.25 in the PL or if you want to do it the other way round a PL team building limit of 42.5 is 32.7  in the CL.

By way of example, Belle Vue effectively have what would be 5 CL heat leaders and 2 CL second strings.