ray c 2,299 Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, foreverblue said: No true Wells should be replaced too. I think covatti is the key .if nico don't score 6 plus at no 2 then we could be in trouble .like you say got to have a full side for the playoffs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,620 Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Pinny said: THJ in his peak performed a lot better than anything Berntzon or Nilsson etc has managed in Poland and Sweden. even if you look at his GP results from 2015 - he may not of made a semi final but had plenty of 6 and 7’s which isnt too bad, and beat plenty of top riders along the way. so what Col is saying is right - since Lindgren and Lindback , THJ is the best that Sweden have produced. Peter Ljung also had a season in the GPs. And if you exclude AJ, Freddie and Tonio he has been the top Swede in the Elitserien four times in the last five years. [Sundstrom was the best in 2017.] BUT at 36 he is older than Lindback and Lindgren! In both 2018 and 2019 Oliver Berntzon (age 26) has been the top averaged Swede under 30 in the Elitserien. Edited August 28, 2019 by arnieg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col 850 Posted August 28, 2019 I like it when stats back me up. Svemo official averages for the riders mentioned. 2013 46. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 16 69 88 1,275 52. Linus Sundström Piraterna 9 39 47 1,205 54. Kim Nilsson Vargarna 14 59 70 1,186 62. Jacob Thorssell 15 57 58 1,018 71. Oliver Berntzon Ikaros Smederna 16 55 45 0,818 201421. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 18 79 131 1,658 37. Kim Nilsson Rospiggarna 18 81 119 1,469 39. Jacob Thorssell Elit Vetlanda 17 71 104 1,465 44. Oliver Berntzon Ikaros Smederna 15 64 88 1,375 53. Linus Sundström Piraterna 16 67 86 1,284 2015 33. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 14 61 88 1,443 40. Linus Sundström Lejonen 12 59 76 1,288 46. Jacob Thorssell Elit Vetlanda 4 16 18 1,125 55. Kim Nilsson Rospiggarna 8 30 30 1,000 2016 26. Jacob Thorssell Rospiggarna 22 108 178 1,648 33. Kim Nilsson Masarna 14 59 86 1,458 36. Linus Sundström Masarna 13 60 86 1,433 58. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 12 51 50 0,980 59. Oliver Berntzon Elit Vetlanda 12 47 46 0,979 2017 29. Oliver Berntzon Dackarna 18 83 125 1,506 32. Kim Nilsson Masarna 14 68 100 1,471 38. Linus Sundström Masarna 14 67 92 1,373 46. Jacob Thorssell Rospiggarna 16 63 80 1,270 53. Tomas Jonasson Vetlanda Speedway 16 74 76 1,027 So it's official, Tomas Jonasson was marginally better at his peak than Berntzon, Nilsson, Sundström & Thorsell! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinny 2,536 Posted August 28, 2019 I thought the argument was since Lindback and Lindgren, who came on the scene around 2002, Sweden hadnt produced a better rider? THJ was a heavy scorer in Poland as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,620 Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Col said: I like it when stats back me up. Svemo official averages for the riders mentioned. 2013 46. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 16 69 88 1,275 52. Linus Sundström Piraterna 9 39 47 1,205 54. Kim Nilsson Vargarna 14 59 70 1,186 62. Jacob Thorssell 15 57 58 1,018 71. Oliver Berntzon Ikaros Smederna 16 55 45 0,818 201421. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 18 79 131 1,658 37. Kim Nilsson Rospiggarna 18 81 119 1,469 39. Jacob Thorssell Elit Vetlanda 17 71 104 1,465 44. Oliver Berntzon Ikaros Smederna 15 64 88 1,375 53. Linus Sundström Piraterna 16 67 86 1,284 2015 33. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 14 61 88 1,443 40. Linus Sundström Lejonen 12 59 76 1,288 46. Jacob Thorssell Elit Vetlanda 4 16 18 1,125 55. Kim Nilsson Rospiggarna 8 30 30 1,000 2016 26. Jacob Thorssell Rospiggarna 22 108 178 1,648 33. Kim Nilsson Masarna 14 59 86 1,458 36. Linus Sundström Masarna 13 60 86 1,433 58. Tomas Jonasson Elit Vetlanda 12 51 50 0,980 59. Oliver Berntzon Elit Vetlanda 12 47 46 0,979 2017 29. Oliver Berntzon Dackarna 18 83 125 1,506 32. Kim Nilsson Masarna 14 68 100 1,471 38. Linus Sundström Masarna 14 67 92 1,373 46. Jacob Thorssell Rospiggarna 16 63 80 1,270 53. Tomas Jonasson Vetlanda Speedway 16 74 76 1,027 So it's official, Tomas Jonasson was marginally better at his peak than Berntzon, Nilsson, Sundström & Thorsell! Except you've conveniently overlooked Berntzon's 2018 stat of 1.753. Overall these stats demonstrate that there is little in it between any of THJ, Thorrsell, Berntzon, Sundstrom and Nilsson, and that none of them has exactly made a sustained major impact ( and of course these figures do not take Into account performances outside Sweden.) Edited August 28, 2019 by arnieg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCookie 753 Posted August 28, 2019 Always felt THJ would've been a real top rider but something just didn't seem right. Even though he did achieve GP status, I think he was never quite the same after his father's untimely death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinny 2,536 Posted August 28, 2019 Its a daft argument anyway as Jonasson is in a rapid decline . But since Lindback and Lindgren, he has been the best rider Sweden have produced taking into account his Swedish and Polish top flight scores. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col 850 Posted August 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, arnieg said: Except you've conveniently overlooked Berntzon's 2018 stat of 1.753. I didn't bother going as far as 2018, admittedly! The stats also fail to take into account whether the rider spent any time at reserve during the season. Dunno if there is historical data for Ekstraliga. I'll have a look later 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,820 Posted August 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, arnieg said: Except you've conveniently overlooked Berntzon's 2018 stat of 1.753. Overall these stats demonstrate that there is little in it between any of THJ, Thorrsell, Berntzon, Sundstrom and Nilsson, and that none of them has exactly made a sustained major impact ( and of course these figures do not take Into account performances outside Sweden.) Pretty much agree, Berntzon is definitely on the rise and can’t be far away from THJ stats wise if anyone has the Polish stats as proof. What any stats prove is that there has been no decent Swedish rider on the world stage since Freddie and Antonio. Thorssell, Berntzon have done no worse on the GP stage than THJ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinny 2,536 Posted August 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Pretty much agree, Berntzon is definitely on the rise and can’t be far away from THJ stats wise if anyone has the Polish stats as proof. What any stats prove is that there has been no decent Swedish rider on the world stage since Freddie and Antonio. Thorssell, Berntzon have done no worse on the GP stage than THJ. THJ over 14 GPs averaged just over 5 points a GP. Been much worse in the GPs over the last 20 or so years. Always been overated in the UK due to people thinking his overseas form would translate to the UK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col 850 Posted August 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Thorssell, Berntzon have done no worse on the GP stage than THJ. WRONG! Jonasson has scored 11 points in a GP, 9 points in a GP and 8 points in a GP twice. Berntzon's best GP tally is 7. Thorsell's is 4. GP averages: Jonasson 90 103 4.58 Berntzon 15 12 3.20 Thorsell 15 7 1.87 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,632 Posted August 28, 2019 On his last two UK league sessions, THJ was using borrowed machinery including the proverbial 'track spares'! This time, with contracts at both Poole and Berwick in place til the end of the season, he is bringing his own bikes, van and mechanics as I understand it. Having him at reserve for Poole is certainly a plus although not sure how he will do at the remaining league fixture tracks eg the Foxhole and Norfolk Arena as well as in the play-offs? I'll be very interested to see how he goes at Birmingham tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col 850 Posted August 28, 2019 PGE Ekstraliga Stats, again THJ is on top of the Swedes younger than Lindback & Lindgren 2012 37 Thomas H. JONASSON 1988 Gdańsk 1,659 201428 Thomas H. JONASSON Gdańsk 1,735 41 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,367 2015 39 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,359 40 Tomas H. JONASSON Leszno 1,351 2018 42. Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,200 44. Jacob THORSSELL Zielona Góra 1,184 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,645 Posted August 28, 2019 THJ Terrible signing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,820 Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pinny said: THJ over 14 GPs averaged just over 5 points a GP. Been much worse in the GPs over the last 20 or so years. Always been overated in the UK due to people thinking his overseas form would translate to the UK. Indeed very poor. Never got the preoccupation with some rating him. 1 hour ago, Col said: WRONG! Jonasson has scored 11 points in a GP, 9 points in a GP and 8 points in a GP twice. Berntzon's best GP tally is 7. Thorsell's is 4. GP averages: Jonasson 90 103 4.58 Berntzon 15 12 3.20 Thorsell 15 7 1.87 Good stats, which of course proves how hopeless those next generation riders are on the world stage. 1 hour ago, Col said: PGE Ekstraliga Stats, again THJ is on top of the Swedes younger than Lindback & Lindgren 2012 37 Thomas H. JONASSON 1988 Gdańsk 1,659 201428 Thomas H. JONASSON Gdańsk 1,735 41 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,367 2015 39 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,359 40 Tomas H. JONASSON Leszno 1,351 2018 42. Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,200 44. Jacob THORSSELL Zielona Góra 1,184 Good stats again, seems his career has been in free fall for 5 seasons. Edited August 28, 2019 by stevebrum Added detail Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
