stevebrum 6,819 Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, DJWolves said: Not sure I agree with either bwitcher or stevebrum really bwitcher doesn't seem to have grasped that Jacob was losing races in 2018 to people that he would have beaten by the length of the straight in 2017 But stevebrum I think Jacob will come back strong and will improve his average in 2019 and I wouldn't be surprised to see him top our averages I’m not sure what part you disagree with then as you seem to be agreeing with me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, stevebrum said: I’m not sure what part you disagree with then as you seem to be agreeing with me! Correct. You were both very wrong. The rider who will top our averages out of Masters, Schlein, Thorssell (assuming he signs) and Morris will be the one who spends the longest riding at 3 or 4. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col 849 Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Correct. You were both very wrong. The rider who will top our averages out of Masters, Schlein, Thorssell (assuming he signs) and Morris will be the one who spends the longest riding at 3 or 4. What about if one of them rides at 2, with Howarth at 3 or 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted December 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Thanks Wolfie.. I'd forgotten how crazy it was to sign him in the first place on that average So he went down 1.39.. which fits in with me stating (as I did before a wheel was turned last year) there is a 1-2pt difference between riding at 4 and 1. Plus of course factor in he was coming back from a nasty injury. Keen to know who the riders are he was losing to in 2018 that he was beating by the length of the straight in 2017.. or are we to assume this is made up? Difficult to say, he's always been fairly inconsistent, 12 one week and 8 the next but the rolling average doesn't lie. 1-2 points harder at No 1 would seem to add up. Nick Morris had a similar drop after starting at No 1 also Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Col said: What about if one of them rides at 2, with Howarth at 3 or 4 They won't but if they did, the same principle applies. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: Difficult to say, he's always been fairly inconsistent, 12 one week and 8 the next but the rolling average doesn't lie. 1-2 points harder at No 1 would seem to add up. Nick Morris had a similar drop after starting at No 1 also Exactly. Which is why having two of them on such low averages... and neither starting at No 1 gives a big advantage. Masters will start at 1 but highly unlikely will stay there. One of those at 3 and 4 will move to No 1 at some point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJWolves 82 Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, stevebrum said: I’m not sure what part you disagree with then as you seem to be agreeing with me! Only the part where you said you don't think he can top 2017 without Freddie's influence, I think he can 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJWolves 82 Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: I'll give you a chance though, name these riders that he lost to in 2018 that he was beating by 'the length of the straight' in 2017. I'll give you some help, barring a mechanical issue or a fall there won't be a single one. -------------------- Haven't got chance to look back through the whole season, but for example Adam Ellis, Rohan Tungate and Richard Lawson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) Tungate beat Thorssell at least twice in 2017 at Monmore, certainly did so in the play offs. I highly doubt Thorsell beat the other two, or indeed any rider in the top five of any side by 'the length of the straight'. Anyway, the simple facts remain.. signing Thorssell in 2018 was an awful, awful signing, almost condemning the team to a season of mediocrity before a wheel was turned. The signing of Thorssell in 2019 would be an excellent signing giving the team a great chance of success before a wheel has turned. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 10, 2018 26 minutes ago, DJWolves said: Only the part where you said you don't think he can top 2017 without Freddie's influence, I think he can Agree with you here, we have to hope/believe there is still more improvement to come from him. He has had a taste at No 1, it was tough, but he will be better equipped next time. That may well come this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJWolves 82 Posted December 10, 2018 In 2017 Thorsell was winning many races by a distance and any defeat to the three riders I have mentioned would be a disappointment no matter whether he was riding at number 1 or 4. He was actually beating much better riders than those by a distance in 2017 and by the end of the season was often going round faster than Lindgren. Last season the club decided to go with Thorsell instead of Lindgren and apart from his races at number 1 being more difficult, I think the pressure of being number 1 weighed heavy on him and as a consequence he didn't ride as well as he had done in 2017. I suspect most regulars at Monmore would agree with that. But I think there is still improvement to come and even if he ends up riding much of next season as number 1, I think his average will increase. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Flag 454 Posted December 10, 2018 Jacob should be nailed on especially on his average.The biggest issue last season wasn't just about his riding No it was a consequence of the massive accident he had at the end of 2017, he wasn't riding with confidence and at times was awkward and stiff on the bike, he was having even bigger issues in Sweden where he struggled even more, in my opinion a fully fit Jacob would have stayed at No 1 all last season, as it is I'm expecting him to exceed his starting average whatever number he rides at this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,819 Posted December 10, 2018 7 hours ago, BWitcher said: Correct. You were both very wrong. The rider who will top our averages out of Masters, Schlein, Thorssell (assuming he signs) and Morris will be the one who spends the longest riding at 3 or 4. Pardon? Very wrong about what? That Jacob disappointed in 2018? That he will struggle to top 2017 average? ive already said I expected him to do better in 2018 than he did. looking forward to what was ‘very wrong’ about my post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 10, 2018 6 hours ago, DJWolves said: In 2017 Thorsell was winning many races by a distance and any defeat to the three riders I have mentioned would be a disappointment no matter whether he was riding at number 1 or 4. He was actually beating much better riders than those by a distance in 2017 and by the end of the season was often going round faster than Lindgren. Last season the club decided to go with Thorsell instead of Lindgren and apart from his races at number 1 being more difficult, I think the pressure of being number 1 weighed heavy on him and as a consequence he didn't ride as well as he had done in 2017. I suspect most regulars at Monmore would agree with that. But I think there is still improvement to come and even if he ends up riding much of next season as number 1, I think his average will increase. I agree with pretty much all of that, which is exactly what I said would happen.. and was slated by most for. I think he actually as well as could be expected. Anyway, apologies for any offence, a few crossed wires but as I say we're pretty much in agreement. As I said above, he will be more equipped for riding at No 1 next season.. and most importantly, if he goes there, it will be on the back of performing well in a less demanding position so would have that added confidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 10, 2018 29 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Pardon? Very wrong about what? That Jacob disappointed in 2018? That he will struggle to top 2017 average? ive already said I expected him to do better in 2018 than he did. looking forward to what was ‘very wrong’ about my post. If you were 'disappointed' with him in 2018 then you had completely false hopes and were very wrong to begin with. He did exactly as expected, maybe slightly better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites