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berwick bandits 2019

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11 minutes ago, emilali said:

So basically the product being offered for this season is yet further watered down than it has been the last few years, yet the prices have been raised?  Alongside this, its entirely the duty of the supporters club to hand over to the club every penny they make? And the justification is simply that they should just be grateful that the speedway is being kept going?

Sorry but this is the 21st century and speedway is vastly overpriced for the product people get to see and the amount of guest riders they see for riders riding elsewhere at any given time and any amount of other excuses that are made when it suits throughout a season. If a supporters group wish to put on trips for their members then thats entirely their prerogative there shouldnt be articles written by that prat regarding the matter.

I think its about time speedway broadly moved itself away from the self praise it craves just for ‘keeping the speedway going’. If you put on a great product and get the entertainment spot on, the crowd would take care of itself. If you dont, I dont see why clubs can turn around and be surprised/offended when people dont go anymore.

Sadly you hit nail on head in many ways   Admission costs across Championship seem to all be around the £17 mark? Take it without Seasons Man/Wife /2 kids would be £36 plus  a programme and food, maybe £50 all in? Unless it takes off again like Rugby League did several years ago halycon day crowds gone!

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44 minutes ago, Catch Me If You Can said:

Sadly you hit nail on head in many ways   Admission costs across Championship seem to all be around the £17 mark? Take it without Seasons Man/Wife /2 kids would be £36 plus  a programme and food, maybe £50 all in? Unless it takes off again like Rugby League did several years ago halycon day crowds gone!

So true. Although with food could be closer to £60. How many fans are lucky enough to have partners / kids who also really want to go to Speedway and who wouldn't choose a day/evening/dinner out for the same money and with a considerable higher level of luxury. 

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23 hours ago, balderdash&piffle said:

Surely,

A supporters  club run by supporters, is a supporters club, of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on.

A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters.

The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles.  The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that.

There are many valid points throughout this thread  off many people and I could have replied to any number of which; however as the one above is quiet succinct I will use this for my response

1. You certainly can not disagree with the statement "A supporters club run by supporters, is a supporters club (SC), of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on". However it is where and how the said SC raises these funds is the contentious part I would suggest. If the SC pays for a bus and runs raffles on the bus and self generates the cash amongst its own members there can not be an issue, it is when the SC are using the crowd in general in the stadium and the clubs facilities to raise these funds the promotions get upset, after all if the SC started selling hot dogs (widgets? raffle tickets, anything really?) they would pay the club (promotion) to do so for allowing them to obtain cash from the crowd at that venue and operating a franchise in effect

2, Again "A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters" is correct to a certain extent however the SC or the funding stream should change its name as it is more of a Trust or the like; but it can still be run by the supporters or a SC without control of the promotion it just means that the revenues earned come back to supporting the promotion in running the team; however the basic statement is correct but again the frustration I would suggest from the clubs point of view is that much effort goes into running a SC for the benefit of the members but if the Speedway Team doesn't exist whats the point of a SC

3. This statement is the potentially the most valid "The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles.  The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that". however everyone appreciates that crowds are (and have been for some time) in decline and there are many posts saying the entertainment isn't what it should be which I have difficulty in understanding. 15 heats with 4 guys racing 4 laps? it is what it is isn't it? or is that to simplistic a view. What do people want for "More Entertainment" a water jump coming out of bends 2 and 4 with road humps at various points along the track? or jazz bands, majorettes and cheer leaders jumping round between heats like american football? No most fans who attend want teams with Cook Harris King Woofy NKI and Lambert (R not S) and any other array of top riders but all this costs. Without support for the promotion to stop them haemorrhaging money you wont have a team to support so whats the point of a Supporters Club.

So to me it is not even a chicken and egg scenario as the club must come first, as obvious as it is; if you don.t have a club; you have nothing to support; most if not all promotions are blowing their collective brains out and as sad as it is the situation Workington now find themselves in might just be the wake up call the sport needs as everyone is living beyond their means. I don't think Workington will be the final casualty in this saga either.

There are some genuine fans in Berwick who love their speedway and would follow their club anywhere and some of the detractors need to take a step back and if they cant support the club and help to generate funds they (IMHO) need to stop the infighting and take council with themselves and if they don't believe in what is being done and don't want to help so be it; at least let the fans, supporters whatever they want to be called get on in trying to support (save) the club.

Sorry if this has opened old wounds but look at Workington and their supporters (club) trust who injected large sums into the club, working with/for the promotion over the last two years and it still didn't stop the situation they find themselves in this year however if that money raise kept the club afloat for those two extra years then they contributed to a treble winning team last year so there was a successful outcome in that respect.

Regards
THJ

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With the rumours of no Rob Grant doing food and no Dennis behind the scenes anymore with Scott already stating he wasn’t going to be helping a lot are we going to last very long at all? being honest.

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6 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

There are many valid points throughout this thread  off many people and I could have replied to any number of which; however as the one above is quiet succinct I will use this for my response

1. You certainly can not disagree with the statement "A supporters club run by supporters, is a supporters club (SC), of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on". However it is where and how the said SC raises these funds is the contentious part I would suggest. If the SC pays for a bus and runs raffles on the bus and self generates the cash amongst its own members there can not be an issue, it is when the SC are using the crowd in general in the stadium and the clubs facilities to raise these funds the promotions get upset, after all if the SC started selling hot dogs (widgets? raffle tickets, anything really?) they would pay the club (promotion) to do so for allowing them to obtain cash from the crowd at that venue and operating a franchise in effect

2, Again "A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters" is correct to a certain extent however the SC or the funding stream should change its name as it is more of a Trust or the like; but it can still be run by the supporters or a SC without control of the promotion it just means that the revenues earned come back to supporting the promotion in running the team; however the basic statement is correct but again the frustration I would suggest from the clubs point of view is that much effort goes into running a SC for the benefit of the members but if the Speedway Team doesn't exist whats the point of a SC

3. This statement is the potentially the most valid "The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles.  The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that". however everyone appreciates that crowds are (and have been for some time) in decline and there are many posts saying the entertainment isn't what it should be which I have difficulty in understanding. 15 heats with 4 guys racing 4 laps? it is what it is isn't it? or is that to simplistic a view. What do people want for "More Entertainment" a water jump coming out of bends 2 and 4 with road humps at various points along the track? or jazz bands, majorettes and cheer leaders jumping round between heats like american football? No most fans who attend want teams with Cook Harris King Woofy NKI and Lambert (R not S) and any other array of top riders but all this costs. Without support for the promotion to stop them haemorrhaging money you wont have a team to support so whats the point of a Supporters Club.

So to me it is not even a chicken and egg scenario as the club must come first, as obvious as it is; if you don.t have a club; you have nothing to support; most if not all promotions are blowing their collective brains out and as sad as it is the situation Workington now find themselves in might just be the wake up call the sport needs as everyone is living beyond their means. I don't think Workington will be the final casualty in this saga either.

There are some genuine fans in Berwick who love their speedway and would follow their club anywhere and some of the detractors need to take a step back and if they cant support the club and help to generate funds they (IMHO) need to stop the infighting and take council with themselves and if they don't believe in what is being done and don't want to help so be it; at least let the fans, supporters whatever they want to be called get on in trying to support (save) the club.

Sorry if this has opened old wounds but look at Workington and their supporters (club) trust who injected large sums into the club, working with/for the promotion over the last two years and it still didn't stop the situation they find themselves in this year however if that money raise kept the club afloat for those two extra years then they contributed to a treble winning team last year so there was a successful outcome in that respect.

Regards
THJ

On point 1, no money raising is done within the Stadium as the Club stopped allowing it despite still expecting donations, they also stopped the SC from doing the 50/50 draw and the last time a significant donation was made (past promotion) it was for a new medical room, the money was handed over and nothing ever happened of it/it has never been used to this day. The bad blood between the Supporters Club and the Club was being patched up with Scott Courtney and the SC but since he has stepped down there has been numerous articles on the website taking digs at the supporters club and I don’t think Jamie has once made contact with them to try and sort anything out. If John Anderson treated his fans a bit better non of this would be happening I don’t think, I know it’s a different promotion but they havn’t been going the best way about it recently have they?

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Edinburgh’s  fans probably are the best for  keeping there club  afloat every year they raise some amount of money I applaud them 

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8 minutes ago, mac101 said:

Edinburgh’s  fans probably are the best for  keeping there club  afloat every year they raise some amount of money I applaud them 

Difference being the Edinburgh promotion value the supporters and everything they do for the club.

The Berwick Supporters on the other hand are not as appreciated by there promotion or there mouthpiece but that dosent make them any less important.

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34 minutes ago, mac101 said:

Edinburgh’s  fans probably are the best for  keeping there club  afloat every year they raise some amount of money I applaud them 

They have faith in their Promotion who have been at the helm of the Club for a long time ,that counts for a lot IMO.They have been fortunate that their main money men back the club to the hilt.

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4 hours ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

On point 1, no money raising is done within the Stadium as the Club stopped allowing it despite still expecting donations, they also stopped the SC from doing the 50/50 draw and the last time a significant donation was made (past promotion) it was for a new medical room, the money was handed over and nothing ever happened of it/it has never been used to this day. The bad blood between the Supporters Club and the Club was being patched up with Scott Courtney and the SC but since he has stepped down there has been numerous articles on the website taking digs at the supporters club and I don’t think Jamie has once made contact with them to try and sort anything out. If John Anderson treated his fans a bit better non of this would be happening I don’t think, I know it’s a different promotion but they havn’t been going the best way about it recently have they?

Honestly

I can see it still rankles many people and I take it from your comments that you have been involved and as I stated earlier I don't want to stir up a hornets nest but what I will add is it does need someone to facilitate this whole process... In that I mean someone who is trusted and who can liaise between the parties ie the SC or trust and the promotion, as openness and good governance must prevail as people are being asked to raise and hand over cash... The process has to be seen as benefitting the club as a whole and supporting the club in their endeavours to remaining viable...

It's not easy and at Workington we alienated some fans but the monies raised were diverted to key resources in running the club and everyone knew where the monies were going and a committee agreed as to where it would be spent... Honestly there needs to be a coming together rather than having a go at each other as a lot of the current fan base have a great deal to offer and who knows what they could achieve if they pulled together.

Here's a daft idea get the thing up and running and retain (with agreement of the promotion) half what you raise which is used to set up a fund to buy into the club after all it is still on the market... you never know you could end up with a serious percentage if not all of the place and run it with a committee... just a thought..

Regards 

THJ 

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What do other clubs supporters clubs do ? 

And how are the run ?

And how irionic that dick Barrie (who’s comments have upset some people) 

is to be inducted into the bandits hall of fame later this month 

Edited by penchev

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I think there is nothing wrong with supporters clubs, in whatever form they take.

One thing I would say is if they are raising money under a club's brand, then they should have audited accounts each year.
I don't know if that is the case, but assuming it is, then they can do whatever they like with it.

The fact that they use the Berwick Bandits brand always opens them to a certain amount of legislation, which has always surprised my why they haven't called themselves something different.
The tax man can hook onto something like this very quickly, and aggressively, especially if historically the funds have been raised in - or around - the organisations base (i.e. Shielfield).

But I am pretty sure there will be robust auditing of financials in place, so - as the old saying goes - "move along, nothing to see here".

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Yes the Supporters Club committee are about to induct Dick Barrie into the hall of fame next Saturday, and he has just made his feelings very much clear on what he thinks of those people who have just honoured him. If that doesn’t show you something, nothing will.

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6 hours ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

Yes the Supporters Club committee are about to induct Dick Barrie into the hall of fame next Saturday, and he has just made his feelings very much clear on what he thinks of those people who have just honoured him. If that doesn’t show you something, nothing will.

Ironic to say the least Mr Barrie will attend one of these so called "jollies" paid for and organised by the Supporters club, maybe on the night he can categorise those there into fans or supporters. 

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10 hours ago, bigeddiechek said:

I think there is nothing wrong with supporters clubs, in whatever form they take.

One thing I would say is if they are raising money under a club's brand, then they should have audited accounts each year.
I don't know if that is the case, but assuming it is, then they can do whatever they like with it.

The fact that they use the Berwick Bandits brand always opens them to a certain amount of legislation, which has always surprised my why they haven't called themselves something different.
The tax man can hook onto something like this very quickly, and aggressively, especially if historically the funds have been raised in - or around - the organisations base (i.e. Shielfield).

But I am pretty sure there will be robust auditing of financials in place, so - as the old saying goes - "move along, nothing to see here".

Thing is if anyone uses the clubs brand; the club could expect to; or should be; receiving something back for that, shouldn't they? the promotion that is not the riders who are paid by the club, its a moot point but can be a very touchy subject; however it is becoming evermore prevalent in today's society where brand and Image rights are vigorously protected The ability to register one's legal property as an image or brand right facilitates both the economic exploitation of the right and its protection. Historically, this has been the case for copyright and trademark legislation which has been used by companies/bodies attempting to protect their brand.

On the Tax implication as a social body; well that is a totally different can of worms and the SC will not attract any special tax regulations or liabilities however when the money is handed to the rider (or any benefit in kind) the rider should be declaring that as a gift or benefit. (How many do?) On the GOV.UK web site you can see what regulations apply to gifts and benefits and what the tax liabilities are and there is a comprehensive section detailed as Expenses and benefits: A to Z.

You may consider that there is nothing to see however there is always something to interest someone and lets just hope its not HM Revenue Inspectors as the other old saying  goes which is usually attributed to Benjamin Franklin, who wrote in a 1789 letter that “Our new Constitution is now established, and has an appearance that promises permanency; but in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”

Regards
THJ

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4 hours ago, screm said:

Ironic to say the least Mr Barrie will attend one of these so called "jollies" paid for and organised by the Supporters club, maybe on the night he can categorise those there into fans or supporters. 

Well, actually, he won't.    

As early as October, unsure if he'd be in the country in January, he notified the supporters in writing that they should give the seat in the Hall to someone else.

Although back in Britain since early December, Dick has not received an invitation to the Dinner.

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