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Tai Woffinden Best Ever!?

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50 minutes ago, chunky said:

As with any GP system or league format, the winner is the one with the most points...

Steve

Really? Tai proved otherwise today and Poole could well prove otherwise (again) in a few days time.

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52 minutes ago, tyler42 said:

Not 100% true, as tonight result proved. TW won the meeting scoring 5pts less than Laguta 

Clearly he meant overall,  not on the night. 

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30 minutes ago, Barney Rabbit said:

Really? Tai proved otherwise today and Poole could well prove otherwise (again) in a few days time.

It's always good to see someone totally contradict themselves.

You whinge a rider can become World Champion without winning a GP.. even though they've scored the most points over a season.

Now you're whinging when a rider wins a GP and hasn't scored the most points.

Woffinden won the World Title and he won the GP in the process. 

 

Edited by BWitcher
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41 minutes ago, Barney Rabbit said:

Really? Tai proved otherwise today and Poole could well prove otherwise (again) in a few days time.

He clearly meant overall :rolleyes:

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31 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It's always good to see someone totally contradict themselves.

You whinge a rider can become World Champion without winning a GP.. even though they've scored the most points over a season.

Now you're whinging when a rider wins a GP and hasn't scored the most points.

Woffinden won the World Title and he won the GP in the process. 

 

 

I've stated a rider can become World Champion without winning a meeting which is a point against GPs (in my opinion)

I've also said a rider can win a meeting without scoring most points which again, is a point against the GP system (in my opinion)

In the older system a rider had to score most points (or equal most and win a run-off) to win the meeting to win the Championship.

So could not win a meeting by scoring fewer points than a rival (as Tai did today) at the meeting so could not be Champion without winning a meeting.

Where's the contradiction?

 

Edited by Barney Rabbit
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1 hour ago, Barney Rabbit said:

 

I've stated a rider can become World Champion without winning a meeting which is a point against GPs (in my opinion)

I've also said a rider can win a meeting without scoring most points which again, is a point against the GP system (in my opinion)

In the older system a rider had to score most points (or equal most and win a run-off) to win the meeting to win the Championship.

So could not win a meeting by scoring fewer points than a rival (as Tai did today) at the meeting so could not be Champion without winning a meeting.

Where's the contradiction?

 

The idea of a GP system us to score the most points.  Tai scored more than anyone else.  This also applies in most other motorsports.

Yes, a rider CAN win a meeting without scoring the most points. Yes, that is an anomaly.  However, a team can be league champions without winning the most matches/scoring the most points.

A rider still has to score most points (or equal most and win a run-off)to win the Championship.

Steve

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2 hours ago, Barney Rabbit said:

 

I've stated a rider can become World Champion without winning a meeting which is a point against GPs (in my opinion)

I've also said a rider can win a meeting without scoring most points which again, is a point against the GP system (in my opinion)

In the older system a rider had to score most points (or equal most and win a run-off) to win the meeting to win the Championship.

So could not win a meeting by scoring fewer points than a rival (as Tai did today) at the meeting so could not be Champion without winning a meeting.

Where's the contradiction?

 

In the old system a rider can be outscored in all rounds heavily, yet still end up World Champion.

Two riders starting out in Commonwealth final.

Rider A scores 15 Rider B 6 (you could get through that with 6pts many times)

Next round, Overseas

Rider A scores 15 Rider B 8

Next round, InterContinental 

Rider A scores 15 Rider B scores 6 (again you could get through with such a low score often)

Final

Rider A scores 14 (puncture of final bend for example) Rider B 15.

Rider A scored 59pts Rider B 35pts.. yet Rider B is World Champion..

So by your own logic, it's not a point against the GP at all... it's massively points against the old system.

There is simply no comparison, the GP is a far better system and is far more reliant on the skill and ability of a rider than luck.

The old final had the drama of it being on one night... that's it.

Edited by BWitcher
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having seen both gps and old style world championship, its old style for me everytime..(my choice)

my reasons are you had the drama of the one night final, but you got to see a variation of riders along the way...im simply bored with a closed shop of riders every round, then as sometimes happens, the same riders get given the wildcard...add on top of that indoor speedway, no thanks

Edited by ColinMills
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2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

In the old system a rider can be outscored in all rounds heavily, yet still end up World Champion.

Two riders starting out in Commonwealth final.

Rider A scores 15 Rider B 6 (you could get through that with 6pts many times)

Next round, Overseas

Rider A scores 15 Rider B 8

Next round, InterContinental 

Rider A scores 15 Rider B scores 6 (again you could get through with such a low score often)

Final

Rider A scores 14 (puncture of final bend for example) Rider B 15.

Rider A scored 59pts Rider B 35pts.. yet Rider B is World Champion..

So by your own logic, it's not a point against the GP at all... it's massively points against the old system.

There is simply no comparison, the GP is a far better system and is far more reliant on the skill and ability of a rider than luck.

The old final had the drama of it being on one night... that's it.

And how many meetings and rides did Szczakiel need to become World Champion?

And how many meetings and rides did Michanek need to become World Champion?

Don't forget the home-track advantage for Van Praag, Price, and Williams...

To win a GP series, you really have to earn it, and you don't lose it because of a single minor e/f...

I love the way people complain about the top 8 qualifying for the next year's series, but it was okay for the top 11 to qualify from the Inter-Continental Final...

Steve

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2 hours ago, ColinMills said:

having seen both gps and old style world championship, its old style for me everytime..(my choice)

my reasons are you had the drama of the one night final, but you got to see a variation of riders along the way...im simply bored with a closed shop of riders every round, then as sometimes happens, the same riders get given the wildcard...add on top of that indoor speedway, no thanks

What about the THREE nights of drama we have had since Tai's exclusion in Krsko???

Of course, it is so tedious to sit through all those nights with Woffinden, Zmarzlik, Doyle, Pedersen, Lindgren, Janowski...

Steve

Edited by chunky

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4 hours ago, BWitcher said:

In the old system a rider can be outscored in all rounds heavily, yet still end up World Champion.

Two riders starting out in Commonwealth final.

Rider A scores 15 Rider B 6 (you could get through that with 6pts many times)

Next round, Overseas

Rider A scores 15 Rider B 8

Next round, InterContinental 

Rider A scores 15 Rider B scores 6 (again you could get through with such a low score often)

Final

Rider A scores 14 (puncture of final bend for example) Rider B 15.

Rider A scored 59pts Rider B 35pts.. yet Rider B is World Champion..

So by your own logic, it's not a point against the GP at all... it's massively points against the old system.

There is simply no comparison, the GP is a far better system and is far more reliant on the skill and ability of a rider than luck.

The old final had the drama of it being on one night... that's it.

And five 'eastern bloc' riders were given places which invariably meant, on most occasions, places 12 - 16 were sorted as they were not of the same standard as the other riders on show...

In fact, they were not of the same standard of tens of riders who hadn't been able to qualify for the Final...

Another flaw was that several riders, once they qualified, would basically give up their positions in races so they could get the (already decided) start number they wanted for the next round, with which to gain the gate positions they wanted..

Add in the many times riders who couldn't qualify would stay out of a race (but get paid a win by those who did need points) and the contrived way riders from the same nation carved up certain races to gain qualification, and you could argue the 'worlds best' were not always on show with 'everything on the line' like the GP brings..

Being in the top eight seems to be a huge prize which ensures all riders keep focused and driven to deliver their best...

You top the table at the end of a GP season and you truly are the best rider in the world..

Not just the best on one night...

 

 

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Wow, BBC Breakfast just showed a brief clip and interview of Woffinden from last night. That has to be progress.

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6 hours ago, ColinMills said:

having seen both gps and old style world championship, its old style for me everytime..(my choice)

my reasons are you had the drama of the one night final, but you got to see a variation of riders along the way...im simply bored with a closed shop of riders every round, then as sometimes happens, the same riders get given the wildcard...add on top of that indoor speedway, no thanks

I get what you say about the closed shop, maybe it's time to cut the quali roll over to 5 places? But surely you can't say that last night wasn't dramatic

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23 hours ago, one of clubs said:

I cannot believe what I am reading here. Peter Collins, despite what some people believe, is still the best British racer ever. Apart from a potential three individual world honours, what else has Tai won?. Zero. At times, he could not even be bothered to represent his country. I find that inexcusable.

That's your opinion but please tell us what Peter Collins has won?

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The current world individual championship medal table reads for british riders

 

tai woffinden 10th 3-1-1

freddie williams 13th  2-1-0

peter craven 14th 2-0-2

peter Collins 24th 1-1-0

Edited by longlivefrankie
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