ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tyler42 said: Why the insult ? So lets look at the British League, Don't come back with ''I ment Polish league" Because you're argument is based on this country leagues. A 1st division which is made up of nearly all 2nd division riders. Must be so hard being a heat leader in todays tough format? Bet Ole.Ivan or PC would be shaking in there boots at the thought of having to race against bomber and co awful league, its on life support...you now have reports of "bumper crowds" when theres only 1,500 in the place! Edited October 7, 2018 by ColinMills Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, tyler42 said: Why the insult ? So lets look at the British League, Don't come back with ''I ment Polish league" Because you're argument is based on this country leagues. A 1st division which is made up of nearly all 2nd division riders. Must be so hard being a heat leader in todays tough format? Bet Ole.Ivan or PC would be shaking in there boots at the thought of having to race against bomber and co My argument isn't based upon 'this countrys' leagues at all. It's based upon facts. Facts which you clearly do not understand. Ole, Ivan and PC wouldn't be shaking in their boots in any era as they were the top dogs of there time. However, put the 10-20th best riders in today's format and all of a sudden they're not the stars they were in the 70's. They soon become the Bombers of the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BWitcher said: My argument isn't based upon 'this countrys' leagues at all. It's based upon facts. Facts which you clearly do not understand. Ole, Ivan and PC wouldn't be shaking in their boots in any era as they were the top dogs of there time. However, put the 10-20th best riders in today's format and all of a sudden they're not the stars they were in the 70's. They soon become the Bombers of the league. actually think that's a tad unfair on their ability, as for that period, they WERE the best, and as we all know, you can only beat whats in front of you, and ALL sports progress...Bristow wouldn't get near a title today, but stars of yesteryear, leads us to where we are today Edited October 7, 2018 by ColinMills Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, ColinMills said: actually think that's a tad unfair on their ability, as for that period, they WERE the best, and as we all know, you can only beat whats in front of you, and ALL sports progress...Bristow wouldn't get near a title today, but stars of yesteryear, leads us to where we are today It has absolutely nothing to do with their 'ability'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler42 150 Posted October 7, 2018 Would you not agree, It would be a lot easer to gain a higher average from 25 meetings in todays league setup than to attain the same average over 42 matches back in the day. With your Thinking riders like Alan Wilkinson, Gordon Kennett, Trevor Hedge etc. Would in your opinion soon become no better than Bombers of todays league? Very interesting analogy. But of course you know all the facts. Just like i'm still waiting to hear back from you regarding your comment you made earlier in the day i quote ' One gives you the best rider in the world or at the very least very, very close to it every single time. The other allows a random winner who is nowhere near the best rider in the world to win.. as has happened numerous times. It's a no brainer. I think the facts proved you wrong on that one. So please don't quote facts unless you can back them up. Theres a good boy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, tyler42 said: Would you not agree, It would be a lot easer to gain a higher average from 25 meetings in todays league setup than to attain the same average over 42 matches back in the day. With your Thinking riders like Alan Wilkinson, Gordon Kennett, Trevor Hedge etc. Would in your opinion soon become no better than Bombers of todays league? Very interesting analogy. But of course you know all the facts. Just like i'm still waiting to hear back from you regarding your comment you made earlier in the day i quote ' One gives you the best rider in the world or at the very least very, very close to it every single time. The other allows a random winner who is nowhere near the best rider in the world to win.. as has happened numerous times. It's a no brainer. I think the facts proved you wrong on that one. So please don't quote facts unless you can back them up. Theres a good boy. not sure how he can even claim those as facts....but hey ho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, tyler42 said: Would you not agree, It would be a lot easer to gain a higher average from 25 meetings in todays league setup than to attain the same average over 42 matches back in the day. With your Thinking riders like Alan Wilkinson, Gordon Kennett, Trevor Hedge etc. Would in your opinion soon become no better than Bombers of todays league? Very interesting analogy. But of course you know all the facts. Just like i'm still waiting to hear back from you regarding your comment you made earlier in the day i quote ' One gives you the best rider in the world or at the very least very, very close to it every single time. The other allows a random winner who is nowhere near the best rider in the world to win.. as has happened numerous times. It's a no brainer. I think the facts proved you wrong on that one. So please don't quote facts unless you can back them up. Theres a good boy. OH my god. Is this a serious post? Please tell me it's not... please? It is ABSOLUTE FACT that you would get a FAR higher average 'back in the day' than you would in today's setup. There isn't even any form of debate to be had. Even the absolute best such as Mauger. Edited October 7, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 7, 2018 1 hour ago, iris123 said: We'll have someone saying he only has a 9 pt average so can't even be as good as Malcolm Simmons,who had a 10.9 average and won the pairs a few times,come along soon!!! Looks like you were pretty much right Irish... only it's even worse. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
one of clubs 116 Posted October 7, 2018 9 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: That's your opinion but please tell us what Peter Collins has won? Wikipedia/ Peter Collins will tell you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler42 150 Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, BWitcher said: OH my god. Is this a serious post? Please tell me it's not... please? It is ABSOLUTE FACT that you would get a FAR higher average 'back in the day' than you would in today's setup. There isn't even any form of debate to be had. You still don't get it do you. You're whole argument hangs on you're fact that the riders i mention would become average riders in this so called hard 1st division of today. Where the majority is made up of 2nd division riders I disagree with that statement Please prove otherwise. Please have the decency to answer all of my question, not just the bit what suits your argument. You do come across a lot of in you're posts as a very arrogant person who tries to use facts as an excuse, but you're facts are in fact your own opinions and as such, You cannot debate, without becoming a very annoyingly mr know it all. Please refrain from assuming you know everything about the sport. your replies it shows you certainly don't. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler42 150 Posted October 7, 2018 Just now, tyler42 said: You still don't get it do you. You're whole argument hangs on you're fact that the riders i mention would become average riders in this so called hard 1st division of today. Where the majority is made up of 2nd division riders I disagree with that statement Please prove otherwise. Please have the decency to answer all of my question, not just the bit what suits your argument. You do come across a lot of in you're posts as a very arrogant person who tries to use facts as an excuse, but you're facts are in fact your own opinions and as such, You cannot debate, without becoming a very annoyingly mr know it all. Please refrain from assuming you know everything about the sport. your replies it shows you certainly don't. I must go now, if you would like to carry on this debate with facts and not opinions then we can carry on a bit later. But please do some research before hand so the facts are at hand for both to see. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,086 Posted October 7, 2018 I think it is hilarious how people claim that "speedway" is so different today, and how you "can't compare riders of different generations". They then compare Woffinden against a handful of riders from last century - like pre-Woffy days were a single generation! Why is it okay to compare Rickardsson to Fundin forty years apart) but you can't compare Woffinden to Collins? All that the "good ol' days" brigade is doing is comparing the 2010's to the complete first 80 years of the sport! Speedway has constantly evolved (okay, British speedway has DEvolved), but most seem content to classify it as "now" and "everything before now". Fundin and Briggs claimed multiple world titles in one generation. Mauger claimed his in another. Nielsen and Gundersen were a later generation. Then there was Rickardsson. Then there was Crump and Pedersen. Then there was Woffinden. Why is it okay for everybody else to be classed as "greats" when they are all from different generations, but it is unacceptable to include Woffinden - even against Brits who never came close to doing what he has done? Steve 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,086 Posted October 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, one of clubs said: Wikipedia/ Peter Collins will tell you. I think I know this one! 1976 World Final! Oh, and r/u the following year... He was part of a "team" that won events against such powerhouse teams as Poland and the Soviet Union... Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, chunky said: I think I know this one! 1976 World Final! Oh, and r/u the following year... He was part of a "team" that won events against such powerhouse teams as Poland and the Soviet Union... Steve we comparing world cup line ups now? again preferred 70s! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,086 Posted October 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, ColinMills said: we comparing world cup line ups now? again preferred 70s! This thread is not called "Colin Mills prefers..."! I "preferred" the 1970's WTC, but most of the time, GB/England didn't have too much opposition. Therefore, you can't claim that Collins scoring maximums against the Gordeevs and Glucklich was as impressive as Woffinden beating Laguta, Sayfutdinov, and Janowski... Steve 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
