BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 17, 2018 38 minutes ago, Midland Red said: It's all about facts and opinions - sadly some on here cannot tell the difference it is a fact that Tai has won three world individual titles (courtesy OOFC) It is an opinion that Tai is the best British rider of all time Yes, the someone being you. NOBODY has questioned your right to an 'opinion' that there are many British riders better than Woffinden. What has been questioned is the nonsense you have come out with to try and justify it. A 5 year old could form a more cohesive argument. Seriously, when you still cannot grasp why there were so many 10pt riders in the 70'....it has been explained to you multiple times yet you still keep coming out with it. It's also notable how questions are conveniently avoided.. it was spouted earlier about how hard the British Final was to get through.. I've asked how many times did the BIG names such as Collins, Lee, Jessup as three examples fail to get through.. I know about the infamous PC sugar in the tank incident so that's an exception. Aside from that, please let me know, must be plenty as you make such a big song and dance about it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BluTiger 21,662 Posted October 17, 2018 It's almost impossible to compare riders from different era's, it only becomes a never ending debate on differing opinions. Tai is the best from this era by a country mile, but i think it's too early to say best of all time. I suspect in time he will be though, if he avoids injury ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted October 17, 2018 43 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Gollob simply cannot come into the equation, nowhere close to being best ever. If he truly was 'the best ever' or 'the most talented' then he was a complete bottle job.. which rules him out of any best ever conversation. Just an opinion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: Sam Ermolenko also says the same thing. When have I ever criticised Tatum and his knowledge of mechanical issues? So Sam says the same. Both are bound to find it harder, for frig's sake. I'd find it harder kicking a ball than I did 20 years ago. In fact, I find it harder doing most things. Edited October 17, 2018 by moxey63 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 17, 2018 58 minutes ago, BWitcher said: We know, you keep saying, without realising that's only strengthening Tai's case. How is it strengthening Tai's case? As I said, Tai is the best British rider since he won the first title. You can't doubt that. But the competition has never been so weak. I know, I keep saying it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: When have I ever criticised Tatum and his knowledge of mechanical issues? Sure you'll get round to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, moxey63 said: How is it strengthening Tai's case? As I said, Tai is the best British rider since he won the first title. You can't doubt that. But the competition has never been so weak. I know, I keep saying it. You do, and you are wrong and have been shown to be wrong. Besides, you don't watch so you wouldn't have the slightest knowledge of 'how strong' the competition is. Edited October 17, 2018 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, BWitcher said: You do, and you are wrong and have been shown to be wrong. Besides, you don't watch so you wouldn't have the slightest knowledge of 'how strong' the competition is. You probably didn't watch all the riders you're professing Woffinden to be better than. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Just an opinion Correct and I have given mine. Sommelier will feel Gollob is the most talented rider he has seen on a bike and he has a good argument.. however, that's just one part of the package. Consistency, ability to perform under pressure, ability to adapt to different conditions/tracks/surfaces all come into play when discussing the 'best ever' and Gollob falls down in those areas compared to others. When someone trots out the opinion line it basically means they haven't got any semblance of an argument in the first place. You see, in the adult world, intelligent people who have 'opinions' can back them up with solid sound reasoning. In cases where their reasoning is shown to be flawed, or quite simply wrong, they learn and change their opinion. Then there are idiots.. who simply repeat ad nauseam that it's their opinion regardless of having nothing at all to back it up and most importantly when their reasoning is shown to be wrong. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, moxey63 said: You probably didn't watch all the riders you're professing Woffinden to be better than. Good to see you don't deny it. Here you are again, yet another day spent on a forum discussing something you don't watch and have no interest in watching lol. As for not seeing riders, I've seen plenty of them, quite easy these days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BWitcher said: As for not seeing riders, I've seen plenty of them, quite easy these days. Time machine, is it? I also see a lot of modern-day riders, live on TV, much more than ever before. I keep in touch. It's so easy today. But, eh, keep watching Youtube to glean your knowledge of the olden days. Not unless you really do have a time machine. Edited October 17, 2018 by moxey63 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, moxey63 said: Time machine, is it? I also see a lot of modern-day riders, live on TV, much more than ever before. I keep in touch. It's so easy today. But, eh, keep watching Youtube to glean your knowledge of the olden days. Not unless you really do have a time machine. You've already stated numerous times you don't even watch on TV. I don't need to even watch on Youtube to dismiss much of the nonsense you come out with... the multiple 10pt riders being the perfect case. I'm still waiting to here about all the times genuine World Title contenders were eliminated in the British Final stage? Come on, you keep talking about it.. let's hear the list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted October 17, 2018 12 hours ago, BWitcher said: Here we go again. I have not stated any opinion. It is not a matter to have an opinion on. A range of averages is determined by the size of league and the heat format used. No opinion is involved. If you really don't understand that after it's been explained multiple times then the mind boggles.... I don't believe I ever mentioned riders' averages - do try and keep track of who you're discussing with! And . . . are you really convinced that you haven't stated any opinion? I thought it was your opinions against the world! There is no doubt that Tai has won three individual titles - fact Opinions vary as to whether he is the best British rider of all time, and will continue to vary - you have yours (despite your apparent denial) and others have theirs The several personal comments you have made on this particular thread over the days to various members do you a disservice as you try to bring us all round to your way of thinking You may be right with your opinions - but that, at the end of the day, is all that they are 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 17, 2018 I'm beginning to think, if only we all agreed with BWitcher... who would he have to chat with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: Sam Ermolenko also says the same thing. When have I ever criticised Tatum and his knowledge of mechanical issues? Go on, I'll keep him busy for another minute or so. When you have ridden your career on what type of machine and then, after a decade or so of professional retirement get on a completely different entity, it will be harder. It could be like writing with your other hand, driving on the wrong side of the road or using a left-hand drive vehicle. Edited October 17, 2018 by moxey63 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
