Grachan 7,314 Posted October 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, MARK246 said: I've seen that, it's were BSI took a winner takes all extreme sport and made second and third better. Hahaha Whatever you feel about the scoring system, there can be little doubt that Tai Woffinden totally dominated his contemporaries in a very strong field. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, moxey63 said: Peter Collins was far inferior to Tai. I mean, he could only finish second with a badly broken leg in Sweden, 1977, surrounded by Mauger, Olsen and Lee in finishing order. This topic, though, is like who'd win a fight against Batman or Spiderman. No one can say. But many on here are trying to live that fight. This is the point, they aren't. The only people 'desperate' to force their opinion over are the Peter Collins fans. Those who think Woffinden ranks right up there have consistently said PC ranks right up there (both of them) and there is a good argument for them to be considered as good. The PC fans constantly keep coming up with points they feel 'proves' why PC was better. As yet every single one of those points has been a failure. "Woffinden has access to better equipment, it wasn't like that in PC's day".. It actually turns out that in his World Final win PC had a completely different engine (4 valve) to much of the field and a massive advantage! A point furthered by Simmons and Crump filling the rostrum. Woffinden's rivals are all on the same machinery. "PC dominated his rivals more than Woffinden does'.. again proven wrong by Waiheke. 'PC faced more top riders than Woffinden does now because of all the 10pters'... this comedy statement proved wrong with ease. That's just a few, there have been more. That's the reason why the thread has gone on so long. So to finish, I again re-iterate, I and I believe most others are certainly NOT questioning the right to hold the opinion that Peter Collins was the best Brit ever. I may not necessarily agree but it's not something that can be definitively proven either way. By the general measuring sticks used Woffinden is ahead, but that is all they are, general measuring sticks. I think some people should feel blessed to have seem them both at their peaks (and some all three including Craven!). Edited October 23, 2018 by BWitcher 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, MARK246 said: Didn't the scoring mean second and third won, there was no reason for any other rider to beat him. Perhaps the reason he was so dominant was other rides understood the rules No, only in the Grand Final or a tie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,314 Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, MARK246 said: Didn't the scoring mean second and third won, there was no reason for any other rider to beat him. Perhaps the reason he was so dominant was other rides understood the rules Second and third only won in the final. Woffinden was unbeaten in the first leg, in which finishing second and third was irrelevant. I think sometimes people just don't want to see what is right in front of them so refuse to believe what is staring them in the face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,086 Posted October 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, MARK246 said: Didn't the scoring mean second and third won No. The scoring meant that whoever was fourth didn't win... Steve 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MARK246 243 Posted October 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, chunky said: No. The scoring meant that whoever was fourth didn't win... Steve Positive spin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, MARK246 said: Positive spin. As opposed to made up nonsense which you continually post. Some of your posts could land you in hot water legally too with your accusations of race fixing and cheating. It's already been explained to you the scoring system by both myself and Grachan so it's rendered your point (yet again) irrelevant. As for the final, when the system is used... Its a TEAM event so quite logically the first TEAM to finish wins. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted October 23, 2018 Looking at PC's journey to the 76 world title it doesn't look that dominant (on paper) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OveFundinFan 4,137 Posted October 23, 2018 Seems like all the bad points of the BSF forum have come out in this thread, as well as others ie Brexit It goes on and on and on, its very boring and very childish. There are times its just best to walk away from the computer (or tablet/phone) and have a cup of tea. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,086 Posted October 23, 2018 52 minutes ago, MARK246 said: Positive spin. Nothing to do with spin. Fact! Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aces51 2,778 Posted October 23, 2018 47 minutes ago, iainb said: Looking at PC's journey to the 76 world title it doesn't look that dominant (on paper) He won his qualifying round, the semi final, was 4th in the British Final and won the Intercontinental Final and the World Final. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OveFundinFan 4,137 Posted October 23, 2018 I would love to see PC (at his best) at the current NSS BV stadium. Let him miss all gates and see him ride it, Chris Morton as well. Would be brilliant. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: This is the point, they aren't. The only people 'desperate' to force their opinion over are the Peter Collins fans. Those who think Woffinden ranks right up there have consistently said PC ranks right up there (both of them) and there is a good argument for them to be considered as good. The PC fans constantly keep coming up with points they feel 'proves' why PC was better. As yet every single one of those points has been a failure. "Woffinden has access to better equipment, it wasn't like that in PC's day".. It actually turns out that in his World Final win PC had a completely different engine (4 valve) to much of the field and a massive advantage! A point furthered by Simmons and Crump filling the rostrum. Woffinden's rivals are all on the same machinery. "PC dominated his rivals more than Woffinden does'.. again proven wrong by Waiheke. 'PC faced more top riders than Woffinden does now because of all the 10pters'... this comedy statement proved wrong with ease. That's just a few, there have been more. That's the reason why the thread has gone on so long. So to finish, I again re-iterate, I and I believe most others are certainly NOT questioning the right to hold the opinion that Peter Collins was the best Brit ever. I may not necessarily agree but it's not something that can be definitively proven either way. By the general measuring sticks used Woffinden is ahead, but that is all they are, general measuring sticks. I think some people should feel blessed to have seem them both at their peaks (and some all three including Craven!). It is also worth remembering that Collins had been forced to retire through injury at the age two years younger than Woffinden is now. He was just 26 when he damaged his shoulder at Cradley in 1980 and forced him to retire from racing until 1982. He was never the same. Prior to his Dudley Wood accident in conditions that shouldn't have seen speedway raced, Collins had suffered a share of misfortune in World Finals and could have won from 1975-79. The second part of Collins' career from 82-86 possibly diminished what had gone before. Had he enjoyed a little more luck, I guess we'd be asking today if Tai could equal his record of titles. Edited October 23, 2018 by moxey63 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sommelier 1,118 Posted October 23, 2018 48 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said: I would love to see PC (at his best) at the current NSS BV stadium. Let him miss all gates and see him ride it, Chris Morton as well. Would be brilliant. Whilst I agree with you regarding PC & Morton at the NSS, NEVER forget also just how good Chris Pusey was, very underestimated rider. Remember my parents taking me to a grass track in the very early 70s to watch PC, Pusey just blew him away!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Aces51 said: He won his qualifying round, the semi final, was 4th in the British Final and won the Intercontinental Final and the World Final. Wouldn't of said he dominated though... No commonwealth final, no overseas final Share this post Link to post Share on other sites