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iainb

Tai Woffinden Best Ever!?

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14 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

So he didn't dominate because he didn't win events that weren't held.

 

No, not only did he not dominate the qualifiers he had a far easier passage to the final than riders of other era's. Still a great great rider, don't get me wrong, you don't win a world championship without being a great rider... Just nowhere near as good as Tai, like I said in an earlier post I compare PC more to the likes of Mark Loram

Edited by iainb

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PC is imo the greatest rider to won a single world individual title.

Loram would possibly be in the bottom 5.

No comparison imo, I think PC is closer to Tai than Loram to PC. 

Loram never topped the top flight averages as an example. I dont believe he shone for england/gb in the way Woffy and PC did.

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8 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Genuine question, why wasn't he picked for the pairs for England that year?

I honestly can't remember if we ever knew the reason. I doubt we were ever told. I think that John Berry was the team manager and if so that could explain why John Louis was preferred. Berry and Collins never got on but I can't recall when that started.

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4 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

I honestly can't remember if we ever knew the reason. I doubt we were ever told. I think that John Berry was the team manager and if so that could explain why John Louis was preferred. Berry and Collins never got on but I can't recall when that started.

You are right that Berry was team manager, thst would explain it. Th ere were issues agsin 10 years later...

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Can't agree with Peter Collins ranking alongside Mark Loram, he is head and shoulders above him in my opinion.

 

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10 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Can't agree with Peter Collins ranking alongside Mark Loram, he is head and shoulders above him in my opinion.

 

I think Loram gets an undeservedly hard time as everybody throws the not winning a GP in his title winning year stat into any argument you out forward for him... Don't forget he did win his world title bang in the middle of the TRick era

Edited by iainb

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6 minutes ago, iainb said:

I think Loram gets an undeservedly hard time as everybody throws the not winning a GP in his title winning year stat into any argument you out forward for him... Don't forget he did win his world title bang in the middle of the TRick era

To me that's not the main reason. 

It's that he didn't get close any other season. That even that season he wasn't dominant in other events. 

To win a GP series requires quality over a number of meetings, but even that season was he the best rider in the world? Was he in the top 3 riders in the world any other season. Where would he rank in riders of the decade?

PC was best rider in the world for 2 seasons (imo) and the 3rd best rider of the decade (behind Mauger and Olsen). 

 

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42 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

PC is imo the greatest rider to won a single world individual title.

Loram would possibly be in the bottom 5.

No comparison imo, I think PC is closer to Tai than Loram to PC. 

Loram never topped the top flight averages as an example. I dont believe he shone for england/gb in the way Woffy and PC did.

Can't argue with any of that!

Steve

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Please, without the fear of being shouted at again, can someone explain if Tai is a better rider because he is more professional than they were in the seventies? If this is the case, surely if PC was riding today he'd be just as professional.

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1 minute ago, moxey63 said:

Please, without the fear of being shouted at again, can someone explain if Tai is a better rider because he is more professional than they were in the seventies? If this is the case, surely if PC was riding today he'd be just as professional.

I don't think anyone has said that.

What has been said is there are more professional riders now than in the 70's. 

PC would, if he was riding now, be one of the most professional as he was in the 70's.

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2 hours ago, Aces51 said:

Pusey was a very good rider. I think that he could have achieved far more than he did but he lacked the professionalism and dedication. 

I talk to Ian Cartwright (one time Halifax 'Duke') whenever I'm visiting 'Mouseman' in Kilburm and he told me that Chris running a pub was the last thing that he should have been doing when he finished with speedway.

A brilliant character however and often forgotten about when one talks of great 'Aces' (much to brother, Geoff's, great annoyance)

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1 hour ago, moxey63 said:

Please, without the fear of being shouted at again, can someone explain if Tai is a better rider because he is more professional than they were in the seventies? If this is the case, surely if PC was riding today he'd be just as professional.

When it comes to equipment, track conditions, riding styles, professionalism etc, there are no advantages or disadvantages to be had when attempting to compare eras. As has been stated many times, it is the same for everyone at any particular point in time.

PC's professionalism can only be compared to the professionalism of his rivals. Even though the riders today are far more professional, Tai's own professionalism can only be compared to that of his rivals. It is all relative.

The thing to remember is that speedway - like all sports - is constantly evolving, and the top guys evolve with the sport. That is why they are the top guys.

Steve

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4 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I talk to Ian Cartwright (one time Halifax 'Duke') whenever I'm visiting 'Mouseman' in Kilburm and he told me that Chris running a pub was the last thing that he should have been doing when he finished with speedway.

A brilliant character however and often forgotten about when one talks of great 'Aces' (much to brother, Geoff's, great annoyance)

I wonder how much his lifestyle and dedication (or lack thereof) contributed to not only a lack of real top-level success, but also to such a short career at that level. Chris can certainly be classed as an under-achiever when you consider his talent, and he should definitely have been around for longer than he was.

Steve

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1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

I don't think anyone has said that.

What has been said is there are more professional riders now than in the 70's. 

PC would, if he was riding now, be one of the most professional as he was in the 70's.

Though that said, maybe he didn't work as hard as Ole and Ivan, and was more reliant on natural ability.

Perhaps why Ole's gating improved to world class standard, and PCs remained average (Though he could produce gates when it mattered, 77 final as an example). 

 

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