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Tai Woffinden Best Ever!?

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29 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...I recall that there was a Grand Prix Challenge that allowed a number to qualify but that a certain number retained their place based on finishing positions. Is that still the system in place today or is  it more complex than that which allows competitors to compete in a series of qualifying meetings? (one question mark!) It's a point that Ivan Mauger was always keen to highlight in the past whenever the subject was broached.

Qualifying by finishing in the top 8 of the previous year's GP series is no less a method of qualification than finishing in the top 3 of the GP Challenge...

Steve

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, chunky said:

Qualifying by finishing in the top 8 of the previous year's GP series is no less a method of qualification than finishing in the top 3 of the GP Challenge...

Steve

...Personally I think that only the top three should automatically qualify but I guess that would create enormous problems with logistics and time scales I would imagine? I seem to remember that this was discussed at some time during the past?

Edited by steve roberts

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5 hours ago, geoff100 said:

To me he is a one trick pony on the first turn u know he is going to cut back up the inside with his front wheel over the white line, in the good old days of one night 5rides against better riders he would look average, apart from a pole and an old american who has he to beat !

Are you for real?? one trick pony??  Why reference to front wheel over the white line?? It's allowed you know, guess you got no mates so need some replies.. Enjoy

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Tai is more, much more then a one trick pony. He ca gate, he cuts back on the first bend for sure - but so well, and he can pass in exceptional ways.  I am impressed how easy he makes it all look, in contrast, to say Zmarzlik whose legs are going everywhere. TW just sits and does the stuff needed. Very impressive. 

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People are right when they say it is impossible to compare eras. The sport is wholly different to what it was in the 50s or even in the 80s. Racers in each era can only ever be the best of their era - they can only beat who is in front of them, on the tracks of that day, using the machines of those times.

Having said that, I am massively impressed by Tai Woffinden. He truly is the complete speedway rider. He has the lot. He can win from the front, he is equally brilliant from the back. He is cool under pressure and highly professional. In my time watching the sport, I would rank him up with Tony Rickardsson and Bruce Penhall as complete riders. I've no doubt Tai Woffinden will wrap up his third World Title this weekend. Beyond that, the speedway world is his oyster.

 

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8 hours ago, falcace said:

People are right when they say it is impossible to compare eras. The sport is wholly different to what it was in the 50s or even in the 80s. Racers in each era can only ever be the best of their era - they can only beat who is in front of them, on the tracks of that day, using the machines of those times.

Having said that, I am massively impressed by Tai Woffinden. He truly is the complete speedway rider. He has the lot. He can win from the front, he is equally brilliant from the back. He is cool under pressure and highly professional. In my time watching the sport, I would rank him up with Tony Rickardsson and Bruce Penhall as complete riders. I've no doubt Tai Woffinden will wrap up his third World Title this weekend. Beyond that, the speedway world is his oyster.

 

I really can't add anything to that...

Yes, I am one of the old farts who grew up with Fundin, Briggs, Mauger, Olsen, Collins, Penhall, Nielsen, Gundersen, Rickardsson, etc... Brilliant, brilliant riders, the lot of 'em. However, when I look at Woffinden's style, and some of the moves he makes, he really does make it look easy. I was a great admirer of Gollob, and he could do things on a bike that I've never seen anyone else do, but he never made it look as effortless as an on-song Tai.

I know that everyone has their own reasons - or alleged reasons (WTC wins/maxima can't be used to "prove" one rider is better than another) - but looking at it realistically, it is difficult to find a "better" British rider than Woffy...

Steve

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10 hours ago, Red Flag said:

Are you for real?? one trick pony??  Why reference to front wheel over the white line?? It's allowed you know, guess you got no mates so need some replies.. Enjoy

Ditto !! U might have not have your rose tinted specs if u wernt a wolves fan.

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17 hours ago, geoff100 said:

To me he is a one trick pony on the first turn u know he is going to cut back up the inside with his front wheel over the white line, in the good old days of one night 5rides against better riders he would look average, apart from a pole and an old american who has he to beat !

I couldn't disagree more. Even if the cut back was his only first turn move he has lots of versions of it. He can go in deeper than just about anybody else and still make the turn back, his best skill for me though is when off an outside gate and he cuts back early but still manages to get drive down the straight, I have never seen anybody else do that near as well.

However he can also make decent gates and from gate 1 can control the other riders without any dives to the fence, just moving enough to take their run away. Also from gate 1 he can stay tight and still lead down the back straight against the worlds best riders. As I say in 50 years he is the best rider I have ever seen through turns one and two on the first lap.

There is no way that he would have been an average rider in any era. It's a bit like when everybody used to say that Maugers only skill was gating, it might have been the way he won many of his races but he could do everything else as good as the best too.

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Looking at the draw tonight Tai has 2 rides before Zmarzlik.

Zmarzlik has a tricky opener off of gate 3.

Tai by gp standards couldnt wish for 2 better opening races.

By the time Zmarzlik comes to the tapes in heat 8, Tai may be on 5 or 6 points and Zmarzlik on 2.

That would be a lead of 13 points and time running out.

 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, geoff100 said:

To me he is a one trick pony on the first turn u know he is going to cut back up the inside with his front wheel over the white line, in the good old days of one night 5rides against better riders he would look average, apart from a pole and an old american who has he to beat !

Not a Tai fan but have to disagree he is far from a one trick pony,he has a superb effortless style  and complete control on the bike and can perform passing manoeuvres with ease and control he could go on a win more titles given his age ( we are assuming he will win this year,but who knows).He is up there with the best Brits from different era'.Personaly don't like his off track persona he comes across as a bit fake too me.( bad boy made good and letting everybody know)..

Edited by Fromafar

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I cannot believe what I am reading here. Peter Collins, despite what some people believe, is still the best British racer ever. Apart from a potential three individual world honours, what else has Tai won?. Zero. At times, he could not even be bothered to represent his country. I find that inexcusable.

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6 hours ago, chunky said:

I really can't add anything to that...

Yes, I am one of the old farts who grew up with Fundin, Briggs, Mauger, Olsen, Collins, Penhall, Nielsen, Gundersen, Rickardsson, etc... Brilliant, brilliant riders, the lot of 'em. However, when I look at Woffinden's style, and some of the moves he makes, he really does make it look easy. I was a great admirer of Gollob, and he could do things on a bike that I've never seen anyone else do, but he never made it look as effortless as an on-song Tai.

I know that everyone has their own reasons - or alleged reasons (WTC wins/maxima can't be used to "prove" one rider is better than another) - but looking at it realistically, it is difficult to find a "better" British rider than Woffy...

Steve

This ^.  Also applies to Greg these days, they only did or do what they needed to or need to, sometimes you're not gonna win a race but need at least get a finish to win overall.  In addition to being brilliant at what they do, consistant winners in any sport make it look oh so so easy, which it ain't obviously.  Hope Woffy brings it home tonite....

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21 hours ago, gee jay said:

that's not a bad trick to have in your locker if you're off a dodgy gate 4 or you just miss the start . he can also drop the clutch and leave the others in his dust so that's a 2 trick pony at the very least .   

The Poles din't take long to Suss Doyle's firast bend bullying  and put a stop to it ,  why have they not caught on to woffinden he's done the same stunt so many times it's almost like it's scripted  . if I didn't see woffinden at the first turn i would go straight for the kerb because I would know  thats where he would be

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Posted (edited)

Don't think Tai winning three titles, if he goes on to, will make him best Brit ever. Did winning most British Finals make Scott Nicholls the best Brit ever? Suppose it helps who your opposition is. Think it's quite poor, has been for several years since the real stars - Crump, Gollob, Rickardsson, Adams etc, left the stage.

Edited by moxey63
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Speedway has been going for 90 years. In all that time, no Brit has ever won 3 individual world championships. If Tai does so, he deserves to be lauded as the most successful Brit of all time. 

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