Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted October 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, Mark said: Why ? If you have the best 15 why change. 7 riders have to finish outside the top 8 but it doesn't mean putting others riders in there place will improve the series. Each year only 1 or maybe 2 will not be good enough. This season Pawlicki and Cook had seasons they would rather forget so they deserve to be replaced. Pedersen has been dropped but he won a GP showing he was still quick enough.. Madsen is easily in the top 16 riders in the World now he deserves his chance.Also riders like Drabik, Lambert, Smektala they have to be given an opportunity at sometime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark 1,497 Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Madsen is easily in the top 16 riders in the World now he deserves his chance.Also riders like Drabik, Lambert, Smektala they have to be given an opportunity at sometime. Yes Madsen is in the top 15 and now he gets his chance. The other 3 you name are kids who would be badly outclassed at this stage of there career. And that includes Lambert who, for his own reasons, won't take the step up to Poland's top tier next season. I'm surprised with that but hope he does very well for Lodz. He is only 20/21 so plenty of time for him to progress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted October 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mark said: Yes Madsen is in the top 15 and now he gets his chance. The other 3 you name are kids who would be badly outclassed at this stage of there career. And that includes Lambert who, for his own reasons, won't take the step up to Poland's top tier next season. I'm surprised with that but hope he does very well for Lodz. He is only 20/21 so plenty of time for him to progress. Drabik certainly would NOT be outclassed the other two have a way to go yet but Robert would not be disgraced remember Tai's debut GP season a learning curve and came back stronger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark 1,497 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Drabik certainly would NOT be outclassed the other two have a way to go yet but Robert would not be disgraced remember Tai's debut GP season a learning curve and came back stronger. Only my opinion but Lambert didn't score many points in the SON, nor at Cardiff when unfortunate, but it seems GB fans are trying to rush him into the GPs. He has the ideal 2019 season for a 20 year old as first reserve. He'll be sure to get a few GPs to bed himself in but with no pressure for top 8 finish. If he does well then he could get a wild card in 2020 with some invaluable experience in his CV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OveFundinFan 4,133 Posted October 15, 2018 Robert seems to be unconventional in his career, choosing to race more Germany the uk earlier on. I think he has some good advisors behind him, turning down Polish top division seems a shock to many, but considering his age and career history perhaps it shouldn't be such a surprise. Hes done well in 2018 from a Polish 2nd div slot, and I cant see what he has chosen to do in 2019 will hurt him at all. He has a great career ahead of him, hope he can keep clear of serious injury. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghostwalker 1,858 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mark said: Why ? If you have the best 15 why change. Well then, who are the 15 best riders in the world? Give me an unbiased list of the 15 best riders in the world and how you came to the conclusion that those riders are indeed the 15 best of the world. Just because a rider is riding in the GP-series doesn't means he is among the 15 best in the world. Edited October 15, 2018 by Ghostwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark 1,497 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Ghostwalker said: Well then, who are the 15 best riders in the world? Give me an unbiased list of the 15 best riders in the world and how you came to the conclusion that those riders are indeed the 15 best of the world. Just because a rider is riding in the GP-series doesn't means he is among the 15 best in the world. You have chopped the quote down to suit yourself as I also said 1 or 2 riders each year prove they are not good enough as Pawlicki and Cook showed this season. My top 15 would probably not be your top 15 but neither of us is wrong as it's just personal opinion. But it would maybe differ by 1 or 2 names. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MARK246 243 Posted October 15, 2018 55 minutes ago, Ghostwalker said: Well then, who are the 15 best riders in the world? Give me an unbiased list of the 15 best riders in the world and how you came to the conclusion that those riders are indeed the 15 best of the world. Just because a rider is riding in the GP-series doesn't means he is among the 15 best in the world. These are the top 15 riders in the world at the moment. Zmarzlik, Madsen, Pedersen(N), Laguta, Woffinden, Sayfutdinov, Kasprzak, Janowski, Dudek(P), Lindgren(F), Vaculik, Doyle, Pawlicki(Piotr), Drabik(M), Kolodziej. If you need a reason it's because they are the top 15 in the toughest league Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,697 Posted October 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, MARK246 said: These are the top 15 riders in the world at the moment. Zmarzlik, Madsen, Pedersen(N), Laguta, Woffinden, Sayfutdinov, Kasprzak, Janowski, Dudek(P), Lindgren(F), Vaculik, Doyle, Pawlicki(Piotr), Drabik(M), Kolodziej. If you need a reason it's because they are the top 15 in the toughest league One could only include Drabik if his heat 2 rides were taken out- I`m not disputing he is class but he is the only one on that list who has that luxury 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MARK246 243 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, racers and royals said: One could only include Drabik if his heat 2 rides were taken out- I`m not disputing he is class but he is the only one on that list who has that luxury That's a fair point so 15th would be Holder. Sorry Holder is an error, Jepsen Jensen is the next in line Edited October 15, 2018 by MARK246 Additional information Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark 1,497 Posted October 15, 2018 41 minutes ago, MARK246 said: That's a fair point so 15th would be Holder bring back Drabik 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col 849 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, MARK246 said: If you need a reason it's because they are the top 15 in the toughest league Which Hancock doesn't compete in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghostwalker 1,858 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, MARK246 said: These are the top 15 riders in the world at the moment. Zmarzlik, Madsen, Pedersen(N), Laguta, Woffinden, Sayfutdinov, Kasprzak, Janowski, Dudek(P), Lindgren(F), Vaculik, Doyle, Pawlicki(Piotr), Drabik(M), Kolodziej. If you need a reason it's because they are the top 15 in the toughest league I disagree. Just taking the 15 highest from Poland doesn't means that they automatically are the 15 best IMO. It's still a subjective opinion. I see it more as groups of riders because there difference is very small between many of the riders. Riders that could challenge for a world title, riders that are good enough to be able to finish around top 8 in SGP and those who would be likely to finish at the bottom and far far away from top 8. The middle groups is IMO very large and I there differences between the riders in that group is very small. Like the difference between JK and MJJ averages in poland which is 0,095. A hundredth of a point/heat. Could just be that MJJ was nice and let a team mate win in a 5-1 situation once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MARK246 243 Posted October 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ghostwalker said: I disagree. Just taking the 15 highest from Poland doesn't means that they automatically are the 15 best IMO. It's still a subjective opinion. I see it more as groups of riders because there difference is very small between many of the riders. Riders that could challenge for a world title, riders that are good enough to be able to finish around top 8 in SGP and those who would be likely to finish at the bottom and far far away from top 8. The middle groups is IMO very large and I there differences between the riders in that group is very small. Like the difference between JK and MJJ averages in poland which is 0,095. A hundredth of a point/heat. Could just be that MJJ was nice and let a team mate win in a 5-1 situation once. It is an opinion, but speedway is a statistical sport and the way to judge the best is using known numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted October 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, MARK246 said: It is an opinion, but speedway is a statistical sport and the way to judge the best is using known numbers. But why ignore performances in GPs,Son,SEC and elitseren? There are probably 8-10 riders definitely deserving a spot as they have potential to battle for top 3, then another 10-15 riders who would be competitive but at best likely to be finishing top 8. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites