Wee Eck 703 Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spl77 said: That may be true. However if they can still ride anywhere they wish and are self employed then surely they have no monetary valve to the business? 1 hour ago, A ORLOV said: Correct Incorrect. As long as you can obtain a loan fee for a rider on your retained list, they must have a value. Indeed, the true value of any rider could be calculated using averages and average working lives, adjusted for a drop out rate for those that choose not to ride in UK anymore. For example, a rider heading towards retirement, but likely to race in UK would be worth 1 times or perhaps 2 times their loan fee. A similar rider in his early 30s might be worth 4 or 5 times. The lure of the Zloty or Swedish Crown hasn't gone on long enough for any British riders to turn their backs on UK permanently so who's to say that, even though Robert Lambert is likely to commit less to UK, and concentrate of Poland and Sweden, that he wouldn't look to come "home" in years to come? Indeed, who's to say that Tai will never race in UK again? So, if the gamble is that they'll return, then whoever is holding their registration will either get or save a loan fee. Which then means they too have a value. There are plenty of riders who are very unlikely to come back to UK, Hancock, Hampel, Janowski, Pedersen etc, so they are the nil value ones, but Holder (C), AJ, Lindback, Lindgren (F), Zagar etc may well return which will earn - or save - someone something. My view is that it's a horrible system, perpetuated by Championship League who need to sell riders to make the books balance, but it's not illegal, as no one is forced to ride anywhere they don't want to, and it does create an asset class for teams holding registrations. Edited October 16, 2018 by Wee Eck Hamill typed in error - meant Hampel! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A ORLOV 8,628 Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wee Eck said: Incorrect. As long as you can obtain a loan fee for a rider on your retained list, they must have a value. Indeed, the true value of any rider could be calculated using averages and average working lives, adjusted for a drop out rate for those that choose not to ride in UK anymore. For example, a rider heading towards retirement, but likely to race in UK would be worth 1 times or perhaps 2 times their loan fee. A similar rider in his early 30s might be worth 4 or 5 times. The lure of the Zloty or Swedish Crown hasn't gone on long enough for any British riders to turn their backs on UK permanently so who's to say that, even though Robert Lambert is likely to commit less to UK, and concentrate of Poland and Sweden, that he wouldn't look to come "home" in years to come? Indeed, who's to say that Tai will never race in UK again? So, if the gamble is that they'll return, then whoever is holding their registration will either get or save a loan fee. Which then means they too have a value. There are plenty of riders who are very unlikely to come back to UK, Hancock, Hampel, Janowski, Pedersen etc, so they are the nil value ones, but Holder (C), AJ, Lindback, Lindgren (F), Zagar etc may well return which will earn - or save - someone something. My view is that it's a horrible system, perpetuated by Championship League who need to sell riders to make the books balance, but it's not illegal, as no one is forced to ride anywhere they don't want to, and it does create an asset class for teams holding registrations. Only if the rider wants to ride in the UK, but if they decide to only ride abroad, if they become injured and cannot ride, if they are banned from riding in the UK, if the rider decides to have a break from racing I am correct. Apart from that loan fees do not seem to be very high for most riders so they are not worth considering and it is unlikely that any bank would class them as an asset . No business man would agree to pay a loan fee for a rider for a season without a claw back clause in the event of the rider either getting injured and not able to ride, the rider deciding after a few weeks that he does not want to ride for that club. Edited October 16, 2018 by A ORLOV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldRacer 84 Posted October 16, 2018 23 hours ago, robins les said: I used to think that the asset system was illegal under the Bosman ruling but I now believe that this is incorrect. The clubs only own the league registration not the rider. The rider is free to ride for any club that he wants. He can refuse to ride for the club that owns the asset, as Kyle Howarth has done in the past & probably many other riders have also done so in the past. The difference between this & football was that the football player was not free to do this. Speedway riders are classed as self employed, unlike footballers who are employees of the club. The Bosman ruling was about clubs holding the league registration for players that are out of contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wee Eck 703 Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, A ORLOV said: Only if the rider wants to ride in the UK, but if they decide to only ride abroad, if they become injured and cannot ride, if they are banned from riding in the UK, if the rider decides to have a break from racing I am correct. Apart from that loan fees do not seem to be very high for most riders so they are not worth considering and it is unlikely that any bank would class them as an asset . No business man would agree to pay a loan fee for a rider for a season without a claw back clause in the event of the rider either getting injured and not able to ride, the rider deciding after a few weeks that he does not want to ride for that club. Your first paragraph is exactly what I said about the factors that need to be taken into account in deciding whether or not having a rider on your retained list constituted a money making - or money saving - asset for accounts or value purposes. I’m not sure of the relevance of your point about banks - no one has suggested using retained riders as collateral, but I agree a lender would need some persuasion to lend on a rider. But the same would be true of an ageing air fence, tractor etc. Your second point is moot - the rules on loan fees are as dictated by BSPA and agreed to by BSPA members. A track using a rider on another team’s retained list pays the fee as set by the rules that all teams have agreed to. “Business men” or women or even non business people can’t cherry pick the rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve0 5,517 Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Skidder1 said: How much do you think Terry Russell would expect to get if/when he sells Swindon? Not a lot - when there are issues with regards to having a stadium Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Skidder1 said: How much do you think Terry Russell would expect to get if/when he sells Swindon? Zilch. It has no commercial value at all. the back straight toilets might have made £15 for kindling/rubble. Edited October 17, 2018 by waytogo28 correction Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted October 17, 2018 19 hours ago, Skidder1 said: How much do you think Terry Russell would expect to get if/when he sells Swindon? The tractor at Wolverhampton is probably valued at £150,000 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ray c 2,299 Posted October 18, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 9:12 AM, iainb said: The tractor at Wolverhampton is probably valued at £150,000 Does that include the driver ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A ORLOV 8,628 Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ray c said: Does that include the driver ? No he is valued at £50 Edited October 18, 2018 by A ORLOV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ray c 2,299 Posted October 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: No he is valued at £50 That much ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robins les 53 Posted October 18, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 1:26 PM, Spl77 said: That may be true. However if they can still ride anywhere they wish and are self employed then surely they have no monetary valve to the business? They have some monetary value as the club that has the registration gets a loan fee from the club he rides for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
auntie doris 2,339 Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 7:36 AM, waytogo28 said: Zilch. It has no commercial value at all. the back straight toilets might have made £15 for kindling/rubble. They are a grade 1 listed building therefore cannot be demolished. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted October 22, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 5:46 PM, auntie doris said: They are a grade 1 listed building therefore cannot be demolished. I regret I had not been made aware of their listing. We are always to eager to destroy our heritage. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,632 Posted October 22, 2018 3 hours ago, waytogo28 said: I regret I had not been made aware of their listing. We are always to eager to destroy our heritage. They are listing to the left or to the right - depending where you are viewing from.......! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old bob at herne bay 828 Posted October 28, 2018 Well there is a growing number of clubs announced as "up for sale" so it looks like a surplus of supply may drive prices down. We have Poole , Somerset (looking to leave Premiership) Rye House (have track for rental) Swindon (no track in 2019) Lakeside (team no track), Peterborough, Redcar, Workington (team no track) Midenhall, and possibly Eastbourne (?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
