ch958 2,393 Posted October 24, 2018 8 hours ago, poolebolton said: You can't cut the product even further. Reducing it hasnt worked and a lot of fans like seeing the best. Can't make it worse. The product is more than names. It is, or should be, four closesly fought laps of racing by riders familiar and liked by their fans. Myself, i had Steve wilcock, Martin Dixon, etc etc I didn't feel shortchanged because i wasn't watching Mauger, Ashby, etc. I saw very good racing. That's the product. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THE DEAN MACHINE 4,736 Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) Does anybody really believe this agm is going to be anything other than the normal tinkering ? A statement will be issued saying it’s been the best ever but behind the scenes it’s just disagreements and spats, the public will be spoon fed snipits and the clubs will be forced to say how wonderful it all went even though it was chaos ,there are some genuine promotors out there who have some good ideas but they will just get shot down because it doesn’t fit in with the rule makers, I think if I was a promoter I would send a guest replacement to the agm as nobody will listen anyway Edited October 24, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Does anybody really believe this agm is going to be anything other than the normal tinkering ? No... But it's nice to dream and it gives some posters an opportunity to write massive long "blueprints for the future" posts to waste everybody's time Edited October 24, 2018 by iainb 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I think if I was a promoter I would send a guest replacement to the agm as nobody will listen anyway The interesting thing is that "guest" supporters no longer turn up regularly. Another 10% of the terraces will fade away in 2019 because of the Emperor's New Clothes policy of the BSPA. Clearly many clubs can survive financially on 500 - 1000 crowds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,632 Posted October 24, 2018 4 hours ago, iainb said: Probably, I have zero interest in doing anything about it though... A reasonably priced ticket and maybe a free pint and a burger or something could get me thinking about going along Many clubs don't have the income from Food, bars and beverages to be able to offer a 'package' incentive! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted October 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Many clubs don't have the income from Food, bars and beverages to be able to offer a 'package' incentive! There's always an excuse... Forget it then, I ain't going to the cricket! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodenspoon 157 Posted October 24, 2018 Do Belle Vue get a vote this year at the Agm, as I feel sure that they would not want the same race nights as this year, and would prefer Friday nights again. But as per usual there is nothing from Belle Vue's promotion to say what they would like to happen in 2019, unless something was said at the "Maugers" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THE DEAN MACHINE 4,736 Posted October 24, 2018 We may be forced into 1 big league next year which isn’t what some promoters want but with at least 2 clubs wanting down and 1 club that we are not even sure they will have a track to race on it’s not looking good for the elite or premiership or whatever it’s called these days Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigerowl 630 Posted October 24, 2018 I like going to the pub and I like going to the speedway. Both of these pastimes have been in serious decline over the past few years and people have stopped going to both in droves. Some of the reasons can be found in both of these pastimes. It's hard to tempt people out of their houses and pay money for beer when they think it's overpriced and the same can apply to speedway. The pubs that just do the same thing that clearly doesn't work time and time again, and just throw their doors open expecting the public to flood in are the one's that die. This is what speedway 'promoters', by and large, tend to do. They offer a product which does not represent value for money and do nothing to keep the fans they have got, never mind attract new ones. Some pubs are thriving because they offer what the customer in their community wants. Some offer live entertainment, some offer food, some offer karaoke nights. My local offers a warm welcome, a nice pint and friendly people and it's busy most nights. The landlord drives around in a Mercedes and has a holiday home in Florida. It works where I live but wouldn't work elsewhere and the promoters have to work hard at getting their product right for the audience they want to keep and attract. To do this they need a product. The product they are offering is potentially one of the most exciting sports in the world and surely, this must be a good starting point. However, what they provide is an overpriced chaotic shambles of a sport with no direction, no identity and no credibility. They need to get back to basics. Offer a full and attractive fixture list with a team of riders that ride for one club. Not the current situation where any seven riders who pull on a race jacket is called a team. It isn't. People will moan on about the 'not enough riders to go round' myth. There are enough riders, they are just riding at the wrong level. Grand Prix riders should not be riding in the second tier, half the third tier riders should be at Championship level and the poor kids stuck in the Development League should be in the National League. If they must charge £17 to get in, at least give the fans £17 worth of entertainment. Unfortunately, 15 races of 55 seconds interspersed with 50 minutes of track grading does not justify parting with £17 in cash. The continual fixture list farce demonstrates absolutely the reasons why the promoters should not be allowed to run things for themselves. I am sure they are all successful businessmen and women in their own right but they have no idea how to work collectively for the benefit of the sport. It is all about vested interests and stabbing each other in the back. I cannot think of any other sport where the owners of the clubs run things themselves. It needs someone with authority and respect to run the sport. There needs to be some way of cutting down on the rained off meetings. Is it any wonder there is hardly any travelling support when riders refuse to turn out if someone spills so much as a cup of tea on the track. I know that if it's tipping it down at start time then there will be little chance of racing but some way of covering tracks cannot beyond the capabilities of the human race. It is also about time we stopped penalising success and rewarding failure. We go on about the lack of riders yet Joe Jacobs, who made massive progress with Belle Vue a couple of seasons ago can't get a team place the following year because his average is too high, whilst another rider who under achieved and threw tantrums was rewarded with two team places the following season because his average fitted!! Finally, the riders have got to come to their senses. If you want to be a full-time rider and are either rich or riding in Poland in front of 15,000 fans, then fair enough and good luck to you. If you are second string in the 'Championship' riding in front of 500 people, surely you cannot expect to be full-time. Look back at the Peter Oakes' Who's Who book in 1974 and the vast majority of the riders had jobs. Now, for some reason, all the riders seem to feel that they are entitled to be full-time, thereby expecting the wages that would enable them to sustain that lifestyle. It cannot continue on current crowd levels. However, having wasted half an hour of my life typing this, I expect that the 2019 season will result in three small leagues, riders riding for multiple clubs, more riders being frozen out of the sport, fixture chaos, declining crowds, arguing promoters and more tractor racing. I'm off to the pub. 17 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,393 Posted October 24, 2018 "Finally, the riders have got to come to their senses. If you want to be a full-time rider and are either rich or riding in Poland in front of 15,000 fans, then fair enough and good luck to you. If you are second string in the 'Championship' riding in front of 500 people, surely you cannot expect to be full-time. Look back at the Peter Oakes' Who's Who book in 1974 and the vast majority of the riders had jobs. Now, for some reason, all the riders seem to feel that they are entitled to be full-time, thereby expecting the wages that would enable them to sustain that lifestyle. It cannot continue on current crowd levels." THIS 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topaz325 1,853 Posted October 24, 2018 Wetherspoons, good value, clean, good products. Speedway........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,632 Posted October 24, 2018 3 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: We may be forced into 1 big league next year which isn’t what some promoters want but with at least 2 clubs wanting down and 1 club that we are not even sure they will have a track to race on it’s not looking good for the elite or premiership or whatever it’s called these days What ever its called, there has to be a 'top' league to fullfill the remaining BT Sports contract - and aside from that there are a number of Championship clubs that don't want one league for fear that they will be uncompetitive - especially those that run at the weekends!! If all you can do is cobble together a side that is going to struggle from the get-go, thats a sure way to reduce your fanbase even further. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THE DEAN MACHINE 4,736 Posted October 24, 2018 35 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: What ever its called, there has to be a 'top' league to fullfill the remaining BT Sports contract - and aside from that there are a number of Championship clubs that don't want one league for fear that they will be uncompetitive - especially those that run at the weekends!! If all you can do is cobble together a side that is going to struggle from the get-go, thats a sure way to reduce your fanbase even further. I believe the bt contract is year on year and please tell me the difference between Poole and Sheffield who finished first and last in their current leagues ? Most riders are riding in both leagues , in strength both leagues are almost Identical, the only reason not to have one big league is number of riders and there are plenty of riders who want to ride here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,243 Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, tigerowl said: I like going to the pub and I like going to the speedway. Both of these pastimes have been in serious decline over the past few years and people have stopped going to both in droves. Some of the reasons can be found in both of these pastimes. It's hard to tempt people out of their houses and pay money for beer when they think it's overpriced and the same can apply to speedway. The pubs that just do the same thing that clearly doesn't work time and time again, and just throw their doors open expecting the public to flood in are the one's that die. This is what speedway 'promoters', by and large, tend to do. They offer a product which does not represent value for money and do nothing to keep the fans they have got, never mind attract new ones. Some pubs are thriving because they offer what the customer in their community wants. Some offer live entertainment, some offer food, some offer karaoke nights. My local offers a warm welcome, a nice pint and friendly people and it's busy most nights. The landlord drives around in a Mercedes and has a holiday home in Florida. It works where I live but wouldn't work elsewhere and the promoters have to work hard at getting their product right for the audience they want to keep and attract. To do this they need a product. The product they are offering is potentially one of the most exciting sports in the world and surely, this must be a good starting point. However, what they provide is an overpriced chaotic shambles of a sport with no direction, no identity and no credibility. They need to get back to basics. Offer a full and attractive fixture list with a team of riders that ride for one club. Not the current situation where any seven riders who pull on a race jacket is called a team. It isn't. People will moan on about the 'not enough riders to go round' myth. There are enough riders, they are just riding at the wrong level. Grand Prix riders should not be riding in the second tier, half the third tier riders should be at Championship level and the poor kids stuck in the Development League should be in the National League. If they must charge £17 to get in, at least give the fans £17 worth of entertainment. Unfortunately, 15 races of 55 seconds interspersed with 50 minutes of track grading does not justify parting with £17 in cash. The continual fixture list farce demonstrates absolutely the reasons why the promoters should not be allowed to run things for themselves. I am sure they are all successful businessmen and women in their own right but they have no idea how to work collectively for the benefit of the sport. It is all about vested interests and stabbing each other in the back. I cannot think of any other sport where the owners of the clubs run things themselves. It needs someone with authority and respect to run the sport. There needs to be some way of cutting down on the rained off meetings. Is it any wonder there is hardly any travelling support when riders refuse to turn out if someone spills so much as a cup of tea on the track. I know that if it's tipping it down at start time then there will be little chance of racing but some way of covering tracks cannot beyond the capabilities of the human race. It is also about time we stopped penalising success and rewarding failure. We go on about the lack of riders yet Joe Jacobs, who made massive progress with Belle Vue a couple of seasons ago can't get a team place the following year because his average is too high, whilst another rider who under achieved and threw tantrums was rewarded with two team places the following season because his average fitted!! Finally, the riders have got to come to their senses. If you want to be a full-time rider and are either rich or riding in Poland in front of 15,000 fans, then fair enough and good luck to you. If you are second string in the 'Championship' riding in front of 500 people, surely you cannot expect to be full-time. Look back at the Peter Oakes' Who's Who book in 1974 and the vast majority of the riders had jobs. Now, for some reason, all the riders seem to feel that they are entitled to be full-time, thereby expecting the wages that would enable them to sustain that lifestyle. It cannot continue on current crowd levels. However, having wasted half an hour of my life typing this, I expect that the 2019 season will result in three small leagues, riders riding for multiple clubs, more riders being frozen out of the sport, fixture chaos, declining crowds, arguing promoters and more tractor racing. I'm off to the pub. Should be printed off and handed out pre AGM to the Promoters.... Great post... Clear demarcation between leagues will generate aspirational improvements for both riders and clubs.. With financial rewards commensurate to each level... Time to stop the ego trip of too many who want to be seen rubbing shoulders with GP superstars and get real... One rider/One club, with each team riding on nights they feel they can attract the best crowds... If you want to ride in GB them you make yourself available for every meeting or you don't ride over here... For the promoters part they put out a fixture list by the end of November, and everyone is signed up by mid December. Promoters also commit to not planning any meeting at any time knowing riders are elsewhere.. Time for GB to stand alone, it cannot compete with Sweden or Poland so don't... Get the product credible, at a realistic admission cost, and start again from there.. All agree reduced ticket prices for away fans like the Premier League do in Football (easy to ensure integrity as the away team can sell the tickets at their own track).. And all contribute to employing a marketing company to get brand "Speedway GB" out there.. Let's be honest, 99.9% of the population don't go to Speedway and not many of that number even know about it.. A huge opportunity for a progressive marketing company you would think to earn themselves some big commission given the raw material of the racing to work with... Time to stop keeping doing what hasn't worked and start doing something different and new... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted October 25, 2018 13 hours ago, mikebv said: I expect that the 2019 season will result in three small leagues, riders riding for multiple clubs, more riders being frozen out of the sport, fixture chaos, declining crowds, arguing promoters and more tractor racing. . 2 Yes, same old , same old BSPA blind belief that " all will be well". Oh Well what will be will be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
