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1 hour ago, Hodgy said:

Poland. How and why did they become such a dominant force that now appear to dictate Speedway? What was the catalyst for such a rapid increase of supporters and numerous willing sponsors? Fall of communism, Gollob, Zloty, Investment, Promotion, Marketing??? 

 

None of that really made much of a difference...

The key things they did which drove the success of the Sport in Poland were the following...

They found great success in letting riders dictate to clubs when they would be available, meaning they had to ride on nights to suit the riders earnings rather than when the spectators wished meetings to be ran...

They also saw great benefit and positive feedback from the mainstream media by allowing meetings to take place with the two teams in attendance regularly being made up by any random couple of septets who happened to be available. Septets that had been cobbled together on an adhoc basis on any given evening, to wear the colours of the two clubs competing..

Another master stroke was ensuring that as many riders as possible were contracted to as many teams as possible, preferably covering (thus impacting), three leagues, which meant "guests" were in great demand, bringing that much needed lack of credibility to almost every match that takes place..

Possibly their finest idea was to produce a fixture list and then systematically dismantle it halfway during the season so plenty of "guests" can always be available. (And spectators who had booked time off work, and maybe hotels to watch their team, become disillusioned). 

A fixture list which had been put together in the first place with a clear plan to avoid running meetings during the warmer, dryer Summer months, and instead, cramming in as many meetings as possible towards October and November when it becomes colder and wetter. With the genius add on of running "dead rubber" League meetings to qualify for the play offs, AFTER the play offs have been completed and the League has already been won..

Add in an admission fee that has no correlation to the entertainment value on offer, but goes up by inflation busting amounts annually, allied to a year on year reduction in the overall quality of riders on show, and you surely have the perfect recipe for success..

Cannot think why the BSPA don't run something along similar lines..

Sure to be a winner...

:rolleyes:

 

Edited by mikebv
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THE biggest difference and the greatest advantage for Polish clubs is that they are representative of the towns and cities in which they are situated. That has not been the case with speedway in the UK for generations and will not change. Polish speedway clubs are akin to soccer teams in the UK. 

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40 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THE biggest difference and the greatest advantage for Polish clubs is that they are representative of the towns and cities in which they are situated. That has not been the case with speedway in the UK for generations and will not change. Polish speedway clubs are akin to soccer teams in the UK. 

If you really believe that it will not change then there is no point in having team speedway and just make speedway pay to enter 

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE
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42 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THE biggest difference and the greatest advantage for Polish clubs is that they are representative of the towns and cities in which they are situated. That has not been the case with speedway in the UK for generations and will not change. Polish speedway clubs are akin to soccer teams in the UK. 

What do you mean they are representative of their towns and cities? Do you mean that their 'councils' and local businesses pump loads of money into the clubs?  Or that the towns people support/love/are proud of their clubs?  

If the latter, there are a number of locals at every UK club that feel the same but unfortunately not enough.... 

I was at the Norwich Speedway Dinner last weekend and I remain convinced that if a new club was formed in Norwich it would be a huge success, unfortunately it may never happen. 

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4 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

If you really believe that it will not change then there is no point in having team speedway and just make speedway pay to enter 

THAT'S not what I said and as someone who has visited Polish speedway towns no doubt you know that. Of course there is a place for team speedway in the UK. It is the only type that can possibly work.

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3 hours ago, Trees said:

What do you mean they are representative of their towns and cities? Do you mean that their 'councils' and local businesses pump loads of money into the clubs?  Or that the towns people support/love/are proud of their clubs?  

If the latter, there are a number of locals at every UK club that feel the same but unfortunately not enough.... 

I was at the Norwich Speedway Dinner last weekend and I remain convinced that if a new club was formed in Norwich it would be a huge success, unfortunately it may never happen. 

EVEN if speedway in Norwich was a huge success it would never rival soccer in the shape of Norwich City. Places like Torun, Gorzow, Leszno, and Zielona Gora are towns where speedway is the undisputed number one sport, it is what they are synonymous with, and the fans that attend are doing so in support of not just the club but the town itself. The whole culture is different and is reflected in the media at all levels including TV.

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1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

EVEN if speedway in Norwich was a huge success it would never rival soccer in the shape of Norwich City. Places like Torun, Gorzow, Leszno, and Zielona Gora are towns where speedway is the undisputed number one sport, it is what they are synonymous with, and the fans that attend are doing so in support of not just the club but the town itself. The whole culture is different and is reflected in the media at all levels including TV.

For now yes and good luck to them, if only our townsfolk had the same pride in their speedway clubs! We can't dwell on what Poland are doing, our clubs have never been afforded the backing of councils and businesses like they have and are. Mind you they soon go downhill if something goes wrong, take Bydgoszcz, so the support is not set in stone! 

I believe the Stars get bigger crowds than the Linnets lol 

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5 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

EVEN if speedway in Norwich was a huge success it would never rival soccer in the shape of Norwich City. Places like Torun, Gorzow, Leszno, and Zielona Gora are towns where speedway is the undisputed number one sport, it is what they are synonymous with, and the fans that attend are doing so in support of not just the club but the town itself. The whole culture is different and is reflected in the media at all levels including TV.

The whole culture is different because the Sport has credibility....

If Poland ran their Leagues in such a 'Mickey Mouse' fashion as British Speedway does then simply they wouldn't enjoy anywhere near the same coverage...

Part of the Polish success story (and the success story of any team sport at whatever level) is that 'tribal loyalty' that is built up through the identity of their teams...

Polish fans simply wouldn't stand for the No1 rider of their fiercest rivals wearing their colours and representing them on an adhoc basis...

As it fundamentally goes against what team sport should be...

I remember how hard it was for Darcy Ward to be accepted by his own ZG fans when they signed him, as they saw him as a Torun man..

In Britain in one single week you could be a Wolverhampton rider on a Monday, a Somerset rider on a Wednesday, and a Swindon rider on a Thursday and actually be the Belle Vue No1....!

(Who also represents his contracted team of Glasgow on a Friday,  but rides for Workington on a Saturday and Newcastle on a Sunday)...

Simply nonsense...

And will never generate any decent national mainstream media coverage as it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny...

As it wouldn't in Poland if they ran the Sport the same way...

Edited by mikebv
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4 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

EVEN if speedway in Norwich was a huge success it would never rival soccer in the shape of Norwich City. Places like Torun, Gorzow, Leszno, and Zielona Gora are towns where speedway is the undisputed number one sport, it is what they are synonymous with, and the fans that attend are doing so in support of not just the club but the town itself. The whole culture is different and is reflected in the media at all levels including TV.

Some interesting stats here:

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avepol.htm

For example Torun is over 100km from it's nearest ekstraliga team (Plock)  [ditto Gorzow and Szczecin]

 

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13 hours ago, mikebv said:

None of that really made much of a difference...

The key things they did which drove the success of the Sport in Poland were the following...

They found great success in letting riders dictate to clubs when they would be available, meaning they had to ride on nights to suit the riders earnings rather than when the spectators wished meetings to be ran...

They also saw great benefit and positive feedback from the mainstream media by allowing meetings to take place with the two teams in attendance regularly being made up by any random couple of septets who happened to be available. Septets that had been cobbled together on an adhoc basis on any given evening, to wear the colours of the two clubs competing..

Another master stroke was ensuring that as many riders as possible were contracted to as many teams as possible, preferably covering (thus impacting), three leagues, which meant "guests" were in great demand, bringing that much needed lack of credibility to almost every match that takes place..

Possibly their finest idea was to produce a fixture list and then systematically dismantle it halfway during the season so plenty of "guests" can always be available. (And spectators who had booked time off work, and maybe hotels to watch their team, become disillusioned). 

A fixture list which had been put together in the first place with a clear plan to avoid running meetings during the warmer, dryer Summer months, and instead, cramming in as many meetings as possible towards October and November when it becomes colder and wetter. With the genius add on of running "dead rubber" League meetings to qualify for the play offs, AFTER the play offs have been completed and the League has already been won..

Add in an admission fee that has no correlation to the entertainment value on offer, but goes up by inflation busting amounts annually, allied to a year on year reduction in the overall quality of riders on show, and you surely have the perfect recipe for success..

Cannot think why the BSPA don't run something along similar lines..

Sure to be a winner...

:rolleyes:

 

That’s not what I was asking. We all know the numerous reasons British Speedway is where it is. Speedway in Poland grew rapidly and just interested in why we think this is. It hasn’t always been like that. 

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5 minutes ago, Hodgy said:

That’s not what I was asking. We all know the numerous reasons British Speedway is where it is. Speedway in Poland grew rapidly and just interested in why we think this is. It hasn’t always been like that. 

I think they've always had pretty good crowds haven't they... The money came with the fall of communism, sponsorship, advertising etc. The money goes where the crowds are

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9 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THAT'S not what I said and as someone who has visited Polish speedway towns no doubt you know that. Of course there is a place for team speedway in the UK. It is the only type that can possibly work.

that is what you said , you said "that's not been the case for speedway in the uk for generations and will not change " I know its the only way forward but I was just quoting you saying it wont change, I have banged on about the importance of team identity for a while now but british speedway seems to think it doesn't matter

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE

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10 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

that is what you said , you said "that's not been the case for speedway in the uk for generations and will not change " I know its the only way forward but I was just quoting you saying it wont change, I have banged on about the importance of team identity for a while now but british speedway seems to think it doesn't matter

WHAT won't change is that speedway will be the prime sporting activity in towns across even parts of the country without a professional soccer club and become synonymous with that town or city as it is in Poland and may have been in the UK after the war. That is what I was saying. Or trying to ...

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9 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

WHAT won't change is that speedway will be the prime sporting activity in towns across even parts of the country without a professional soccer club and become synonymous with that town or city as it is in Poland and may have been in the UK after the war. That is what I was saying. Or trying to ...

It won't change the way it's being run at the moment but surely that has to be the goal for clubs like Eastbourne, KL, Somerset etc with no major football team in the vicinity, it pains me to say it but there's only really Poole that are anywhere near to doing that

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17 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

that is what you said , you said "that's not been the case for speedway in the uk for generations and will not change " I know its the only way forward but I was just quoting you saying it wont change, I have banged on about the importance of team identity for a while now but british speedway seems to think it doesn't matter

It won't change now...

It can't...

That horse has well and truly bolted...

Riders it seems need to ride 60 to 80 meetings a year over here to make their money...

Even one 'big league' would only deliver around 40 to 50 with Cups, Shields, Play Offs etc..

Guest slots I presume form a significant part of their income and as we have seen by the way the Friday fixtures were decimated, guests are now an integral part of the British Speedway operating model and part of the business plan..

Team Speedway is all but a misnomer in the UK..

The sport itself can be great though so maybe time to just run it on an individual basis with Promoters buying up licenses to run as many times a year as they want or can negotiate with the landlord...

Eg Ten meetings at the NSS, ran at weekends and bank holidays, well promoted and backed with decent prize money must deliver a good crowd surely?

Ten 'proper' meetings with 3000 in attendance at an 'Event' would do the Sports reputation far more lasting good than running 20 meetings with almost zero credibility in front of circa 1500 each time...

Not quite time maybe to nail that lid down on the Team Speedway coffin but getting pretty close I would suggest..

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