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Belle Vue 2019

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3 hours ago, WestGorton1884 said:

Realistically Cook doesn’t have the talent of someone like Lambert, but Craig is probably the next level down , ie a very capable international speedway rider .

the GPs were a step too far , but he more than deserved to his chance to ride at that level, albeit possibly for only one season.

I’m genuinely sorry to see his time as an Ace end the way it did , hopefully bridges haven’t been burned and he can return one day ? .... doubt it though 

Cook has shown he doesn't have the capability to be a good International rider either. Unwanted in Sweden and Denmark and is also an absolute failure in the 2nd tier in Poland. 

Cook is a good rider in the UK and would do a good job for any Premiership / Championship club, that is his level. International standard Craig Cook has shown himself to NOT be.

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3 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Fair point.

On the one hand maybe BV did need a freshen up; on the other hand, they’ve dropped a very loyal rider at the peak of his career and gone back to an older one who’s on the wane. For me, loyalty is worth more than squeezing the best average advantage.

Have to disagree. There is only three years difference in their ages. Bjerre has won GPs and has competed at the highest level in all major speedway countries. It all about opinions, but mine is that Kenneth will do a better job for BV than Craig.

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1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

Cook has shown he doesn't have the capability to be a good International rider either. Unwanted in Sweden and Denmark and is also an absolute failure in the 2nd tier in Poland. 

Cook is a good rider in the UK and would do a good job for any Premiership / Championship club, that is his level. International standard Craig Cook has shown himself to NOT be.

I said he’s a capable International Speedway rider , I stand by that ....

I also said the GPS were a step to far for his talent level

however his failings  on the big Polish circuits were down to horsepower, not lack of ability 

in my opinion anyway 

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Any rider who gets through the GP qualifiers and qualifies by right and then the following year only misses out in a run off is, in my opinion, certainly good enough to be classed as an international rider. 

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2 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

Any rider who gets through the GP qualifiers and qualifies by right and then the following year only misses out in a run off is, in my opinion, certainly good enough to be classed as an international rider. 

Spot on !!!

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4 hours ago, ABS said:

Bjerre would have been very loyal to BV, given the chance. However, some years back, BV decided to build the team around an aging Joe Screen and not the up and coming Kenneth Bjerre. Not Kenneth's choice, but that is what happened. Despite this, he still never said a bad word about the club and was brilliant when he returned to he fold. I am sure his average will go up again riding at the best track in the country, once more.

If the “some years back” is referring coming in to the 2007 season, you have it entirely wrong. 

When Chris Morton, David Gordon and I bought Belle Vue late on in 2006, we were resssured by BSPA that the other teams had been told to keep their hands off the 2006 team until we had put together a strong 1-7. We already knew that Jason Crump was going to ride for Poole, a deal done during the 2006 season, so needed every rider we could get our hands on. 

Despite the assurances, the then Peterborough promotion defied everyone and signed Bjerre. I remember having a very heated phone conversation on Christmas Eve 2006 with the then BSPA Chairman, Peter Toogood about this but he basically said there’s was nothing that could be done.

Personally, I thought it all a shocking betrayal by the sports’ governing body and the rider. What I considered was particularly bad was that the BV faithful had supported the rider in 2005 after he broke his leg, a break that probably cost BV the league. 

Now, I know that no rider can be forced to ride where he doesn’t want to, but I do believe they need to understand that loyalty is a two way matter.

As a final point, the “ageing Joe Screen” you referred to was 34 during the 2007 season - Kenneth Bjerre will be 35 during 2019

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Thank you Gordon for the inside track on this. All I did was to quote the words used by the Belle Vue promotion at the time, as regards the justification of what was done. Naturally, I am not party to the privileged information that you, as a Promotor, had. Not disputing a word you are saying, but perhaps you should have been more honest with your punters as to what really happened.

Relative to Bjerre's age at the time, I think it is reasonable to describe Joe as ageing.

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4 hours ago, ABS said:

Bjerre would have been very loyal to BV, given the chance. However, some years back, BV decided to build the team around an aging Joe Screen and not the up and coming Kenneth Bjerre. Not Kenneth's choice, but that is what happened. Despite this, he still never said a bad word about the club and was brilliant when he returned to he fold. I am sure his average will go up again riding at the best track in the country, once more.

A good friend of mine was one of his main sponsors at the time. I was privy to some of the happenings during that season and he was essentially forced out. Crump and Screen had full control of team affairs at that point. Said he’d never ride for that promotion again but was always happy to race at bv.

 

Hes alright is KB, had some terrible injuries but he seems more settled at bv than anywhere else.

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50 minutes ago, WestGorton1884 said:

I said he’s a capable International Speedway rider , I stand by that ....

I also said the GPS were a step to far for his talent level

however his failings  on the big Polish circuits were down to horsepower, not lack of ability 

in my opinion anyway 

Craig had plenty of horsepower in Poland and spent plenty with the big tuners who knew what they were doing. Lack of technique/setup technique cost him out there.

21 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

Any rider who gets through the GP qualifiers and qualifies by right and then the following year only misses out in a run off is, in my opinion, certainly good enough to be classed as an international rider. 

Certainly an international rider but in reality an international also ran. The SEC would benefit him if he can put in decent showings in that company.

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7 minutes ago, acef said:

A good friend of mine was one of his main sponsors at the time. I was privy to some of the happenings during that season and he was essentially forced out. Crump and Screen had full control of team affairs at that point. Said he’d never ride for that promotion again but was always happy to race at bv.

 

Hes alright is KB, had some terrible injuries but he seems more settled at bv than anywhere else.

Maybe Mr. Pairman would care to comment on this?

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43 minutes ago, acef said:

A good friend of mine was one of his main sponsors at the time. I was privy to some of the happenings during that season and he was essentially forced out. Crump and Screen had full control of team affairs at that point. Said he’d never ride for that promotion again but was always happy to race at bv.

 

Hes alright is KB, had some terrible injuries but he seems more settled at bv than anywhere else.

What I have said is what happened. JC had no say in team building for 2007. Why would he? Tony Mole told me in July 2006 that Jason was going to Poole in 2007, which he did. By the time Chris, David and I bought BV from Tony, which was either late November or early December 2006, JC had already been named in Poole’s 2007 team. 

We bust a gut to keep KB but he’d already done a deal, behind our backs, with Peterborough. 

As far as referring to a 34 year old Joe Screen as “ageing” is concerned, I have no problem with that. We’re all ageing. But, out of courtesy and within the boundaries of consistency, perhaps you should refer to the “aged” soon to be 35 year old Kenneth Bjerre?!

One other point that I’ve just spotted - you say that “he’d never ride for that promotion again”. Which promotion? He’d never ridden for the Morton, Gordon, Pairman promotion and it was public knowledge that the Mole, Thomas promotion was selling up. There had been a series of articles in the Manchester Evening News, and, much to their annoyance and before a deal was agreed, Tony announced Chris and David at the end of season dinner dance as the future owners of Belle Vue.

So he wasn’t being asked to ride for “that” promotion. 

Edited by Gordon Pairman
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2 minutes ago, Gordon Pairman said:

What I have said is what happened. JC had no say in team building for 2007. Why would he? Tony Mole told me in July 2006 that Jason was going to Poole in 2007, which he did. By the time Chris, David and I bought BV from Tony, which was either late November or early December 2006, JC had already been named in Poole’s 2007 team. 

We bust a gut to keep KB but he’d already done a deal, behind our backs, with Peterborough. 

As far as referring to a 34 year old Joe Screen as “ageing” is concerned, I have no problem with that. We’re all ageing. But, out of courtesy and within the boundaries of consistency, perhaps you should refer to the “aged” soon to be 35 year old Kenneth Bjerre?!

Opinions will differ GP depending on who’s point of view we are looking through. It’s no secret that he didn’t get on with Joe, and I think that was the main driver for his departure.

The damage was done before you arrived, and that potentially swayed his feelings towards you Chris and Gordon. The deal with Peterborough was done some time before I think, I’d heard he was going halfway through the season but that was purely speculation at the time.

It was the right time for him to go, but I think he’s always enjoyed racing for the club.

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10 minutes ago, Gordon Pairman said:

What I have said is what happened. JC had no say in team building for 2007. Why would he? Tony Mole told me in July 2006 that Jason was going to Poole in 2007, which he did. By the time Chris, David and I bought BV from Tony, which was either late November or early December 2006, JC had already been named in Poole’s 2007 team. 

We bust a gut to keep KB but he’d already done a deal, behind our backs, with Peterborough. 

As far as referring to a 34 year old Joe Screen as “ageing” is concerned, I have no problem with that. We’re all ageing. But, out of courtesy and within the boundaries of consistency, perhaps you should refer to the “aged” soon to be 35 year old Kenneth Bjerre?!

Gordon,

 

Would it be fair to say that Kenneth never really got on with Joe (and vice-versa) and this might have been one of the reasons he left BV, given that you were building your team around Joe?

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5 minutes ago, acef said:

Opinions will differ GP depending on who’s point of view we are looking through. It’s no secret that he didn’t get on with Joe, and I think that was the main driver for his departure.

The damage was done before you arrived, and that potentially swayed his feelings towards you Chris and Gordon. The deal with Peterborough was done some time before I think, I’d heard he was going halfway through the season but that was purely speculation at the time.

It was the right time for him to go, but I think he’s always enjoyed racing for the club.

You beat me to it!!!

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10 minutes ago, acef said:

Opinions will differ GP depending on who’s point of view we are looking through. It’s no secret that he didn’t get on with Joe, and I think that was the main driver for his departure.

The damage was done before you arrived, and that potentially swayed his feelings towards you Chris and Gordon. The deal with Peterborough was done some time before I think, I’d heard he was going halfway through the season but that was purely speculation at the time.

It was the right time for him to go, but I think he’s always enjoyed racing for the club.

My comments, though, are not an opinion. They are a statement of facts. 

How the ageing/aged KB chose to tell his side doesn’t matter. We wanted him, we believed he owed it to the fans to show loyalty after all the financial support he got in 2005.

He saw it differently. JC did not, could not influence us, Joe had no say in team building. 

To be honest, we were desperate to get a team, any team, together. Have a look at the starting 1-7 and you’ll see what I mean. I wouldn’t embarrass Joe by suggesting he’d any say in the 2007 team!

Edited by Gordon Pairman
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