acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: Your a little defensive of your own rider while I have no association to none. It is my opinion Kurtz and Holder will be bigger and better rider's than Fricke by 2021. I've nothing against Fricke, just from what I've seen, the other 2 Aussie's will be better. That's it, opinion. I’m not defensive at all and it has nothing to do with Max riding for BV. You are choosing to ignore what is in front of you. Facts. Averages. International form. Progress in the GP qualifiers. It’s all there for you to see. For whatever reason you think he will stop progressing and you have rightly been called out now by a number of posters because that is just an utterly stupid logic. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WestGorton1884 621 Posted January 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Never said he's reached his ceiling did I?? All I said was Fricke will stagnate and Holder and Kurtz will be better than him by the time they're all 25. Nothing stopping Fricke later on doing a Doyle at 30 years old. All I'm saying is for me Fricke has something missing from his game and I can't put my finger on it. It's not his gating either as some are suggesting. Life throws so many objects in front of people and things change in a flash. Just right now, in my opinion, Kurtz and Holder will be better come the ages of 25. " Fricke has that feel of a rider who will not progress any further and stagnate ".... Sounds like you're saying he's reached his ceiling doesn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 32 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Never said he's reached his ceiling did I?? All I said was Fricke will stagnate and Holder and Kurtz will be better than him by the time they're all 25. Nothing stopping Fricke later on doing a Doyle at 30 years old. All I'm saying is for me Fricke has something missing from his game and I can't put my finger on it. It's not his gating either as some are suggesting. Life throws so many objects in front of people and things change in a flash. Just right now, in my opinion, Kurtz and Holder will be better come the ages of 25. Whilst I totally get this is a forum and we can have an opinion, I’m struggling to understand how you have arrived at such a view point when everything tells us all otherwise. What, specifically, makes you think he will stagnate? Expand on your point. What is he doing currently, that makes you think he will stop and fall behind those riders mentioned when he’s actually currently ahead of them at the same age. I just don’t get it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,821 Posted January 2, 2019 59 minutes ago, acef said: Sam is a good rider for wolves. Has been for a long time. But I think it starts and ends there. Internationally they are worlds apart. Yet has ridden in more GP’s than Fricke! Lets see what both bring to the table in 2019 anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) The interesting point about these three riders are they are all the same age and are in the same era.Kurtz come on the scene and blew us away at first,and i still love watching him ride.He has had a blip since then and needs to add more consistency to his racing.Holder last year came back from his Poole year and was terrific in the uk and on the continent.Fricke on the the other hand came over in 2013 and year on year he has improved come from riding a technical track Edinburgh to riding the terrific NSS stadium a real learning experience for him. Edited January 2, 2019 by Sidney the robin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Yet has ridden in more GP’s than Fricke! Lets see what both bring to the table in 2019 anyway. Off the back of wildcard picks, where the formula for that choice has certainly been questionable over the years. Anyway, it’s all about nothing. Enjoy the season. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: The interesting point about these three riders are they are all the same age and are in the same era.Kurtz come on the scene and blew us away at first,and i still love watching him ride.He has had a blip since then and needs to add more consistency to his racing.Holder last year came back from his Poole year and was terrific in the uk and on the continent.Fricke on the the other hand came over in 2013 and year on year he has improved come from riding a technical track Edinburgh to riding the terrific NSS stadium a real learning experience for him. Max and his improvement has been excellent since he came over. He’s gone from 2nd string to the clubs number 1, and progressed excellently on the continent. Only an ef away from being a full time gp rider this season. He’s part of those 3 Aussies who will imo, all be gp riders in the next 2 to 3 years. I think sometimes we get lost with the Aussies and just assume that because they are Australians, they will be good. In fact many just end up being run of the mill riders in the uk and Sam Masters is one of said riders. That’s not to say he won’t develop later, like Doyle, but as it stands he is not in the same space as the 3 we are talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Fred Flange said: Fricke, Kurtz and Holder will be gp standard riders in the next few years, masters is good enough to be nominated for an Aussie wildcard but he will never be good enough to qualify, no chance. The only doubt is holders personality which, from what I've heard he thinks is a 'laugh' is suspect to say the least. He’s a box of frogs jack but he’s a class act and I really wanted him at bv this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,821 Posted January 2, 2019 59 minutes ago, acef said: Off the back of wildcard picks, where the formula for that choice has certainly been questionable over the years. Anyway, it’s all about nothing. Enjoy the season. Likewise. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted January 2, 2019 4 hours ago, stevebrum said: Likewise. Likewise from me Steve enjoy the season,Masters is a rider you would know more about than me but he has come along way.I remember when he got bombed out at Somerset i think Monberg replaced him??? since then he was really good at Edinburgh .And then has gone on to do a great job for the Wolves it will be interesting to see how his career pans out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nmc43 1 Posted January 2, 2019 9 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: Never said he's reached his ceiling did I?? All I said was Fricke will stagnate and Holder and Kurtz will be better than him by the time they're all 25. Nothing stopping Fricke later on doing a Doyle at 30 years old. All I'm saying is for me Fricke has something missing from his game and I can't put my finger on it. It's not his gating either as some are suggesting. Life throws so many objects in front of people and things change in a flash. Just right now, in my opinion, Kurtz and Holder will be better come the ages of 25. You might want to look up the difference between a fact and an opinion. You seem to present your opinions as facts... you are wholly entitled to your opinions BUT they are not facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,821 Posted January 3, 2019 16 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Likewise from me Steve enjoy the season,Masters is a rider you would know more about than me but he has come along way.I remember when he got bombed out at Somerset i think Monberg replaced him??? since then he was really good at Edinburgh .And then has gone on to do a great job for the Wolves it will be interesting to see how his career pans out. Thanks STR. Good luck to the Robins too. Masters has made some decent progress the past 3 seasons, whether he has plateaued tho remains to be seen. He has established himself as a decent top flight rider and improved year on year. Not sure If he will reach the heights of GP status but then no one thought Doyle would either 5 years ago so if he wants it bad enough I wouldn’t be surprised. He is just as likely as Kurtz/Holder/Fricke imho although of course they have age and expected ability on their side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 3, 2019 Lidsey with a good start in the Aussie champs. 6 from 6 then dropped off. He will be an absolute steal at reserve. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Thanks STR. Good luck to the Robins too. Masters has made some decent progress the past 3 seasons, whether he has plateaued tho remains to be seen. He has established himself as a decent top flight rider and improved year on year. Not sure If he will reach the heights of GP status but then no one thought Doyle would either 5 years ago so if he wants it bad enough I wouldn’t be surprised. He is just as likely as Kurtz/Holder/Fricke imho although of course they have age and expected ability on their side. Thorssell what do you expect Steve this year? he is a rider i really like and can put half a point on his average.I also would love him to get a testimonial for the Wolves in time riders like him are rare in British speedway these days.Becker/ Morris also look an interesting partnership at reserve i think they could surprise anyway good luck to Wolves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GAH 409 Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Thanks STR. Good luck to the Robins too. Masters has made some decent progress the past 3 seasons, whether he has plateaued tho remains to be seen. He has established himself as a decent top flight rider and improved year on year. Not sure If he will reach the heights of GP status but then no one thought Doyle would either 5 years ago so if he wants it bad enough I wouldn’t be surprised. He is just as likely as Kurtz/Holder/Fricke imho although of course they have age and expected ability on their side. think fricke just prooved who is top dog by winning first round tonight and it won't be his last win neither also 10 pts for lidsey this guy is a steal on 4pt average !! Edited January 3, 2019 by geoff58 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
