waytogo28 2,054 Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Speedtiger said: Companies House Accounts records. !! It shows BV lost £270,730 in 2017. Now I consider that to be an astronomical amount of money to flush away. Phew! That is a lot of additional bums on seats for the next several years to claw it back. Around a 1,000 or so for 20 years. They must really believe there is a UK speedway upturn somewhere down the road. Better by far to buy a Euromillions ticket for tonight! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speedtiger 327 Posted February 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, waytogo28 said: Phew! That is a lot of additional bums on seats for the next several years to claw it back. Around a 1,000 or so for 20 years. They must really believe there is a UK speedway upturn somewhere down the road. Better by far to buy a Euromillions ticket for tonight! And that was only 2017, from what I saw on my visits to NSS last season the crowds were very poor, so 2018 may be an even bigger loss. The future for 2019 doesn't look good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy jimmy 298 Posted February 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: And that was only 2017, from what I saw on my visits to NSS last season the crowds were very poor, so 2018 may be an even bigger loss. The future for 2019 doesn't look good. that included a load of start up costs and paying some of the rider debts off from 2016. It did better last year and will probably get close to break even in 2019 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyOne 126 Posted February 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Speedtiger said: Companies House Accounts records. !! It shows BV lost £270,730 in 2017. No it doesn't. What you are (mis)reading there is the total at the bottom of an abbreviated balance sheet, not a Profit & Loss account. As with all small companies they only have to file micro accounts. They only need to file an abbreviated balance sheet and do not have to file the profit and loss account. So you will not be able to see what profit or loss was made. They may have had to spend £250,000 buying all kinds of intangibles to take over the club, and only lost £20k running the season. On the other hand the owners could have injected £1M into the project and acually lost £1.25M running the season. There's no way of knowing without the information. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speedtiger 327 Posted February 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, CottonOn said: No it doesn't. What you are (mis)reading there is the total at the bottom of an abbreviated balance sheet, not a Profit & Loss account. As with all small companies they only have to file micro accounts. They only need to file an abbreviated balance sheet and do not have to file the profit and loss account. So you will not be able to see what profit or loss was made. They may have had to spend £250,000 buying all kinds of intangibles to take over the club, and only lost £20k running the season. On the other hand the owners could have injected £1M into the project and acually lost £1.25M running the season. There's no way of knowing without the information. Ok fair point but when you look at the poor crowds the average rider costs I’m not surprised that the recorded figures are true. We will see what 2018 figures show soon. I’m told that the rent charged by the council for NSS is very high. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: Ok fair point but when you look at the poor crowds the average rider costs I’m not surprised that the recorded figures are true. We will see what 2018 figures show soon. I’m told that the rent charged by the council for NSS is very high. The crowds were far from poor in respect of what a decent speedway crowd looks like today. No official attendance records are ever published but like I said countless times last year, it’s pretty easy to guess at the NSS. I would say we averaged around 1.5k which certainly isn’t poor. It’s probably one of the highest in the uk. The rent is high but nothing like it was in the first season. It was renegotiated. That said, the losses last season would be 5 figures I’m pretty sure of that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyOne 126 Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: Ok fair point but when you look at the poor crowds the average rider costs I’m not surprised that the recorded figures are true. You're not surprised what recorded figures are true??? You have no access to any recorded figures for crowds or for "average rider costs" do you? First you misread a balance sheet as a Profit & Loss account, now you're claiming to have recorded crowd and rider cost figures that you simply don't have. Basically you're just making stuff up based on your own opinions and guesses which are anything but accurate Edited February 1, 2019 by CottonOn 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwright71 206 Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, acef said: The crowds were far from poor in respect of what a decent speedway crowd looks like today. No official attendance records are ever published but like I said countless times last year, it’s pretty easy to guess at the NSS. I would say we averaged around 1.5k which certainly isn’t poor. It’s probably one of the highest in the uk. The rent is high but nothing like it was in the first season. It was renegotiated. That said, the losses last season would be 5 figures I’m pretty sure of that. It makes you wonder if its ever going to work at Belle Vue. Great stadium, great racing, great facilities, in a big city with a big catchment area, relatively successful teams ( last 4 years in the play offs and a KO Cup) but no more council subsidies and losing money year on year. Its questionable how Belle Vue can significantly increase their turnover while reducing costs with their team and remaining successful on the track. Success in speedway more than most sports is shared around, what happens should Belle Vue have a couple of barren years on track ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Jones 2,124 Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, CottonOn said: You're not surprised what recorded figures are true??? You have no access to any recorded figures for crowds or for "average rider costs" do you? First you misread a balance sheet as a Profit & Loss account, now you're claiming to have recorded crowd and rider cost figures that you simply don't have. Basically you're just making stuff up based on your own opinions and guesses which are anything but accurate I think we already know Speedtiger by other names on this forum. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GAH 409 Posted February 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, iwright71 said: It makes you wonder if its ever going to work at Belle Vue. Great stadium, great racing, great facilities, in a big city with a big catchment area, relatively successful teams ( last 4 years in the play offs and a KO Cup) but no more council subsidies and losing money year on year. Its questionable how Belle Vue can significantly increase their turnover while reducing costs with their team and remaining successful on the track. Success in speedway more than most sports is shared around, what happens should Belle Vue have a couple of barren years on track ? you know nothing the club were given £70k last year by eastlands trust who run the stadium for youth set up & catering services if you have any concerns i suggest you e-mail adrian smith and he will put right on a few things don't listen to idle gossip makes you look silly !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speedtiger 327 Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, CottonOn said: You're not surprised what recorded figures are true??? You have no access to any recorded figures for crowds or for "average rider costs" do you? First you misread a balance sheet as a Profit & Loss account, now you're claiming to have recorded crowd and rider cost figures that you simply don't have. Basically you're just making stuff up based on your own opinions and guesses which are anything but accurate I have been watching speedway long enough to know a club with financial problems. It’s not rocket science. I go to NSS almost every home meeting. I have some good mates at BV and they know what’s going on. You only need to look on the terraces and it’s easy to calculate the rider costs etc. But I’m ok with your rose coloured view so we will wait and see who right in due course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyOne 126 Posted February 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: I have been watching speedway long enough to know... So from claiming to have all the facts, it's now gone to having zero facts, and it's descended to nothing more than one of those Speedway Star letters... "I've been a fan for 40 years, so my own odd opinion is more valid than everyone else's..." and "I have some good mates" 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil The Ace 2,853 Posted February 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: I have been watching speedway long enough to know a club with financial problems. It’s not rocket science. I go to NSS almost every home meeting. I have some good mates at BV and they know what’s going on. You only need to look on the terraces and it’s easy to calculate the rider costs etc. But I’m ok with your rose coloured view so we will wait and see who right in due course. We have had some shocking crowds when the weather has played a part but the crowds ain't as bad as you think, People just look at only 2 blocks being full in grandstand and think there's only a few 100 there. But in fact there is about 800. And that's just grandstand. South stand is usually full with probably a good 800-100 in there. Regarding finances I don't know much about them but did hear they lost 80k last year. But that was alot less then previous year. They are hoping to gradually bring it down to break even within 5 years. How they will do that I'm not sure as they are not particularly good at promoting like every other promoter. But Adrian is a clever men. I'm sure he has something up his sleeve. And for anyone thinking he's ready to jump ship and they are not committed. Adrian for 2 years has lived in a hotel all week away from his family that he/club pay for. But now he's buying a house not far from the track to live up here. So clearly they are here for the long haul 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ouch 1,191 Posted February 1, 2019 37 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: I have been watching speedway long enough to know a club with financial problems. It’s not rocket science. I go to NSS almost every home meeting. I have some good mates at BV and they know what’s going on. You only need to look on the terraces and it’s easy to calculate the rider costs etc. But I’m ok with your rose coloured view so we will wait and see who right in due course. Could you let us know the rider costs etc? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, iwright71 said: It makes you wonder if its ever going to work at Belle Vue. Great stadium, great racing, great facilities, in a big city with a big catchment area, relatively successful teams ( last 4 years in the play offs and a KO Cup) but no more council subsidies and losing money year on year. Its questionable how Belle Vue can significantly increase their turnover while reducing costs with their team and remaining successful on the track. Success in speedway more than most sports is shared around, what happens should Belle Vue have a couple of barren years on track ? I don’t think barren years will matter. BV supporters are used to it, and we have managed to maintain reasonable levels over the last decade. Unfortunately speedway just doesn’t have the pull. For the majority of people it’s boring and not worth the investment. The catchment area etc doesn’t really matter. It’s the same for many clubs. I think an average attendance of 1.5k is an astonishing achievement, I really do, given the absolute mess this sport is currently in. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
