Daniel Smith 5,656 Posted January 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, WestGorton1884 said: " Has that feel of a rider that will not progress and stagnate "? ... To who ...You ? With all due respect, Max Fricke is 22 to state he's going to 'stagnate' is a ridiculous comment . Jack and Brady are also 22. To suggest they'll not be better than Fricke is also ridiculous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WestGorton1884 621 Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Jack and Brady are also 22. To suggest they'll not be better than Fricke is also ridiculous. Not the same thing at all... to suggest ANY young rider has the "feel" of not being able to progress ( stagnate ) At 22 years of age is ridiculous , Edited January 1, 2019 by WestGorton1884 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 6 hours ago, stevebrum said: Disagree that Fricke is ahead of Masters ‘by the proverbial mile’. Masters is 8.11 and Fricke 8.20 in the top flight UK. Fricke is probably a bit ahead in Europe I’d agree but there pretty much similar standard here, As the averages suggest is a pretty reasonable thought process. Had masters been at number 1 for the time Fricke was you could shave a point of it. At least. Its not a reasonable thought process at all. Taking 2 averages but choosing to ignore where they ridden in their respective teams is silly and is only done to emphasise your point. Those two riders are not even in the same postcode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: I would put Fricke quite away ahead of Kurtz/ Masters, Holder is class as well but still behind Max.Fricke,Holder,Drabik,Lambert,Smektala can all bridge the gap and gate crash the series in time. Correct Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: I know Fricke is currently ahead, hence why I said he'll fall behind Holder and Kurtz, over the coming years. Fricke has that feel of a rider that will not progress much further and stagnate, that's why I compared him to Masters. I’m sorry but that’s completely ridiculous. Hes been progressing YOY since he joined BV. Have a look at Masters in the same time frame. That you would even consider comparing those 2 displays an acute lack of speedway knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: Jack and Brady are also 22. To suggest they'll not be better than Fricke is also ridiculous. Yet he’s ahead of both of them. Sometimes people make themselves look absolutely pathetic because, for whatever reason, they don’t like a certain rider. How any rider that has done nothing but progress can give you a ‘feeling’ that he will not progress in the future, well only you can explain that because it’s utterly weird. Edited January 2, 2019 by acef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted January 2, 2019 6 hours ago, MattK said: I think two riders performances in the strongest club league in the world does make a difference. I judge riders over a period that is how i make a judgement. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve0 5,517 Posted January 2, 2019 8 hours ago, acef said: I’m sorry but that’s completely ridiculous. Hes been progressing YOY since he joined BV. Have a look at Masters in the same time frame. That you would even consider comparing those 2 displays an acute lack of speedway knowledge. One name - Jason Doyle! Proves anything is possible - eventually - with the right attitude, training and dedication. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,820 Posted January 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: But last year he really did step it up the only worry i have with Jack will be Poole being his home track.At Somerset you could race there and there are different lines to find where Poole lets be honest has been a poor track for a while now only time will tell. Don’t get me wrong he improved a lot this year, but similar to Morris last year who had the support of Doyle as well. Wether he is ready to be a true number one I’m not convinced on yet. 9 hours ago, acef said: Had masters been at number 1 for the time Fricke was you could shave a point of it. At least. Its not a reasonable thought process at all. Taking 2 averages but choosing to ignore where they ridden in their respective teams is silly and is only done to emphasise your point. Those two riders are not even in the same postcode. Masters spent time riding at 1 and 5 as well as 4. Ive already said Id put Fricke a shade ahead of Masters and as he is younger it’s expected he will go on to bigger and better things. Obviously i disagree that they are ‘not even in the same postcode’ because they clearly are imho. That I guess is what opinions are all about. More than happy with Masters at Wolves however. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,656 Posted January 2, 2019 10 hours ago, acef said: Yet he’s ahead of both of them. Sometimes people make themselves look absolutely pathetic because, for whatever reason, they don’t like a certain rider. How any rider that has done nothing but progress can give you a ‘feeling’ that he will not progress in the future, well only you can explain that because it’s utterly weird. Your a little defensive of your own rider while I have no association to none. It is my opinion Kurtz and Holder will be bigger and better rider's than Fricke by 2021. I've nothing against Fricke, just from what I've seen, the other 2 Aussie's will be better. That's it, opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted January 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Your a little defensive of your own rider while I have no association to none. It is my opinion Kurtz and Holder will be bigger and better rider's than Fricke by 2021. I've nothing against Fricke, just from what I've seen, the other 2 Aussie's will be better. That's it, opinion. I will happily have a pint on it with you that Fricke will be in a GP series before Kurtz.Holder like yourself i rate he will push on just like Fricke. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WestGorton1884 621 Posted January 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Your a little defensive of your own rider while I have no association to none. It is my opinion Kurtz and Holder will be bigger and better rider's than Fricke by 2021. I've nothing against Fricke, just from what I've seen, the other 2 Aussie's will be better. That's it, opinion. It's a forum , all opinions are valid But how anyone can come to the conclusion that somebody aged 22 as reached his ceiling is just nonsensical In my opinion of course 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,261 Posted January 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, WestGorton1884 said: It's a forum , all opinions are valid But how anyone can come to the conclusion that somebody aged 22 as reached his ceiling is just nonsensical In my opinion of course A strange sport is Speedway... Many riders I would suggest actually do reach their ceiling sometimes even younger than 22.. Off the top of my head I can only remember Jason Doyle and David Norris 'suddenly' almost overnight, becoming 'world class' after several years of being 'OK' without pulling up any trees.. Of the two riders mentioned I would say Fricke's 'trajectory' is moving higher and faster than Masters who does seem to have plateaued a bit in the past 18 months or so.. However Masters still has plenty of time on his hands to move into that top bracket of rider.. Fricke's career thus far does point though to him becoming a genuine world class competitor as in Sweden and Poland he more than holds his own, which is usually a good barometer of a young riders potential.... I would though say it is a pivotal year for Fricke as more responsibility will be put on his shoulders, particularly in Poland and GB.. It will be interesting to see how he handles it, but he certainly seems level headed enough to cope.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,656 Posted January 2, 2019 48 minutes ago, WestGorton1884 said: It's a forum , all opinions are valid But how anyone can come to the conclusion that somebody aged 22 as reached his ceiling is just nonsensical In my opinion of course Never said he's reached his ceiling did I?? All I said was Fricke will stagnate and Holder and Kurtz will be better than him by the time they're all 25. Nothing stopping Fricke later on doing a Doyle at 30 years old. All I'm saying is for me Fricke has something missing from his game and I can't put my finger on it. It's not his gating either as some are suggesting. Life throws so many objects in front of people and things change in a flash. Just right now, in my opinion, Kurtz and Holder will be better come the ages of 25. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted January 2, 2019 2 hours ago, stevebrum said: Don’t get me wrong he improved a lot this year, but similar to Morris last year who had the support of Doyle as well. Wether he is ready to be a true number one I’m not convinced on yet. Masters spent time riding at 1 and 5 as well as 4. Ive already said Id put Fricke a shade ahead of Masters and as he is younger it’s expected he will go on to bigger and better things. Obviously i disagree that they are ‘not even in the same postcode’ because they clearly are imho. That I guess is what opinions are all about. More than happy with Masters at Wolves however. Sam is a good rider for wolves. Has been for a long time. But I think it starts and ends there. Internationally they are worlds apart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
