Workington 2019

[mac101 1,187]

So basically if the rider has signed on the dotted line for you you have him if not and you want him back but he wants to go somewhere else for a better deal he tells the bspa he wants to go to wherever and goes the riders does what he wants nothing new there move on 

Edited November 21, 2018 by mac101

[singy13 372]

2 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Correct but he isn't the only rider owned by the BSPA... however riders can't officiaĺly go where they want until a laid down procedure has been exhausted... the official procedure is (very) roughly and very loosely applied as follows... the club who would like to sign a rider should ask the BSPA/or parent club/promoter if they can make an approach to their asset. If this is sanctioned they then go to the club he was previously at and ask them if they are using the rider and if no... then they go for it...  if yes his previous years club get the first opportunity to do a deal, now the rider and previious club might have already agreed they are moving on or the rider may say I want xxx to come back and there is a failure to agree and everyone moves on... Previous club and rider know the situation however this still doesn't give the rider free reign to negotiate as the parent club need to be asked if an appraoch can be made as they may wish to take him back and if the rider cant agree terms again... then its open season... however what is not supposed to happen is a rider agrees a deal/contract with one club only for another club to come in with a higher offer gazumping the club who thought they had a deal... I suppose in football terms it would be classed as an illegal approach, however it makes things very difficult for the club who had the original agreement to totally change tack when you are building to a set points limit. Its not just one rider that you potentiality lose you may have to ship out others (who have contacts already signed), the whole team may need revisiting to rebalance it when fitting in a different rider not included in the original team plans or running with a weaker team than expected. The process isn't ideal but the consequences can be huge if some order isn't followed... however the process shouldn't be circumvented and especially when the rider agrees a deal (and may have signed a contract) only for another club to come in and offer the rider (who had been happy with his deal/contract) ridiculous amounts to walk away and move to the new club as the highest bidder. It is actions like this that is skewing the whole payment structure creating absolute havoc with team building plans and sets unrealistic financial expectations amongst riders...

I'm doing this on my phone and getting a headache straining my eyes looking at such a small screen so I will cut it there however what I will add is it is maybe time to bring in a grading structure to limit clubs scattergun team building approach or do away with the asset based structure we currently have and allow the BSPA to have all the assets and control them for the benefit of the whole sport applying sensible restrictions.

More to follow... as no don't the usual abuse will need to be defended or the pedantic questions answered in microscopic fashion.

However have at it and I may leave replies until tomorrow as my head is banging... need to go to Specsavers...

Regards 

THJ 

Bloody hell...just let me know the team members I need to shout for and let's enjoy the speedway.......specsavers??? pass me my tablets quick style.

[WorkyWorky 201]

Basically any rider you want, you have to ask the club/BSPA that the rider belongs to, for permission to speak to said rider. 

If a club contacts a rider without owners permission, contract signed or not, it is as THJ states, an illegal approach. It is not just a case of ‘We will do as we see fit.’ Rules are rules. 

Money being thrown around by any team is a different matter, and is gradually adding to the demise of British Speedway. Yes you are within your rights to spend as much of a ridiculous amount of money as you want. But it’s rather strange after stating and agreeing with other teams, that losses of £100,000+ have got to stop, isn’t it? 

[singy13 372]

1 minute ago, WorkyWorky said:

Basically any rider you want, you have to ask the club/BSPA that the rider belongs to, for permission to speak to said rider. 

If a club contacts a rider without owners permission, contract signed or not, it is as THJ states, an illegal approach. It is not just a case of ‘We will do as we see fit.’ Rules are rules. 

Money being thrown around by any team is a different matter, and is gradually adding to the demise of British Speedway. Yes you are within your rights to spend as much of a ridiculous amount of money as you want. But it’s rather strange after stating and agreeing with other teams, that losses of £100,000+ have got to stop, isn’t it? 

Last sentence sums up why teams do cry for help.................. eventually!!

[mac101 1,187]

10 minutes ago, WorkyWorky said:

Basically any rider you want, you have to ask the club/BSPA that the rider belongs to, for permission to speak to said rider. 

If a club contacts a rider without owners permission, contract signed or not, it is as THJ states, an illegal approach. It is not just a case of ‘We will do as we see fit.’ Rules are rules. 

Money being thrown around by any team is a different matter, and is gradually adding to the demise of British Speedway. Yes you are within your rights to spend as much of a ridiculous amount of money as you want. But it’s rather strange after stating and agreeing with other teams, that losses of £100,000+ have got to stop, isn’t it? 

Surely the owner of the rider is the bspa so you contact them first or if you contact rider because no club owns him they would tell you to contact bspa  before any deal can be done the riders are only being loaned to the club for a season unless they gave a contract that’s for more than one season pretty sure every promoter  in the league will approach the rider before the club just to see if he would like to come common sense really 

Edited November 21, 2018 by mac101

[WorkyWorky 201]

2 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Last sentence sums up why teams do cry for help.................. eventually!!

Teams trying to play catch up with offering riders over the odds and bankrupting themselves in the meantime. It really is scary, there will be no teams left to watch in a few seasons time I fear! 

[WorkyWorky 201]

4 minutes ago, mac101 said:

Surely the owner of the rider is the bspa so you contact them first or if you contact rider because no club owns him they would tell you to contact bspa  before any deal can be done the riders are only being loaned to the club for a season unless they gave a contract that’s for more than one season 

Yup that sounds about spot on! 

That is what should happen. THJ’s post summed up in fewer words with less of a headache 

[singy13 372]

2 minutes ago, WorkyWorky said:

Teams trying to play catch up with offering riders over the odds and bankrupting themselves in the meantime. It really is scary, there will be no teams left to watch in a few seasons time I fear! 

Surely though the riders must see they are doing damage to the overall existence of the sport by accepting silly terms?....basically they will eventually kill the goose that's laying their golden egg???

[Gazc 7,089]

3 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Surely though the riders must see they are doing damage to the overall existence of the sport by accepting silly terms?....basically they will eventually kill the goose that's laying their golden egg???

The list of what is wrong with the sport is endless not just in demand overpaid riders.

We spoke about the crowd levels at Paisley in another thread we will never see the like of that again.

The what we do wrong list dwarfs the what we do right list and it grows ever wider, for people to continually lay blame with Glasgow is blinkered and wrong.

The damage was done well before the Facennas took over, spitting the dummy and stamping your feet and airing dirty linen on a forum wont change a thing.

[mac101 1,187]

4 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Surely though the riders must see they are doing damage to the overall existence of the sport by accepting silly terms?....basically they will eventually kill the goose that's laying their golden egg???

So if you were offered more money and paid on time to move to a different company you would say no thanks happy with What I have 

[WorkyWorky 201]

7 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Surely though the riders must see they are doing damage to the overall existence of the sport by accepting silly terms?....basically they will eventually kill the goose that's laying their golden egg???

I guess they should, but I’d think that most don’t see it as their forever career. At some point they will retire and work a ‘normal’ job. Why not make as much now at their peak as they can. So maybe they only focus on now and not the future of the sport? 

I mean I don’t blame the riders, if I was being offered a job with a big fat pay cheque with added courtesy car, travel all expenses paid etc. Compared to a job I’d just accepted with minimum wage, I honestly would not turn it down. That would be crazy! But the real world does work differently to speedway so maybe I shouldn’t think of it that way! 

[singy13 372]

2 minutes ago, Gazc said:

The list of what is wrong with the sport is endless not just in demand overpaid riders.

We spoke about the crowd levels at Paisley in another thread we will never see the like of that again.

The what we do wrong list dwarfs the what we do right list and it grows ever wider, for people to continually lay blame with Glasgow is blinkered and wrong.

The damage was done well before the Facennas took over, spitting the dummy and stamping your feet and airing dirty linen on a forum wont change a thing.

Crowds will never return to the levels we talked of until the sport can somehow rid itself of the WWF/Circus sport reputation that none followers view it as............

.e.g. guests/doubling  up/down which makes it so laughable to the non converted.

[singy13 372]

7 minutes ago, mac101 said:

So if you were offered more money and paid on time to move to a different company you would say no thanks happy with What I have 

Only if I could see evidence they wouldn't go bust during my tenure.

[Tsunami 10,219]

57 minutes ago, mac101 said:

So basically if the rider has signed on the dotted line for you you have him if not and you want him back but he wants to go somewhere else for a better deal he tells the bspa he wants to go to wherever and goes the riders does what he wants nothing new there move on 

Doesn't usually need to go to the BSPA, as the clubs settle in on the basis that a rider will go where he wants to go to. I get the impression that with the BSPA holding Rasmus's  registration that he might have been an asset of a defunct club and the BSPA then own the registration for administration purposes. Actually on the asset list, all foreign riders are under the column of BSPA riders as the BSPA are responsible for getting the "permission to ride" from the appropriate foreign federation even though they are owned by a club..

[TotallyHonestJohn 3,078]

11 hours ago, mac101 said:

So if you were offered more money and paid on time to move to a different company you would say no thanks happy with What I have 

When you have signed a contract that's it otherwise action is usually taken. You see it in football regularly. If the BSPA own the asset you go to them first THEY OWN THE ASSET it's not no one owns the rider the BSPA own him therefore you go to the owner of the asset first before you speak to the rider. 

They may know what the situation is with the rider and that he is available or they may not...

So then you go to the club who are using that asset to see what the situation is before you speak to the rider

The club can only say we are using him then you should back off or no fill your boots you can have him we are team building in a different direction.

You don't go to the rider and say "here mate we will double what you are getting now if you sign for us" it poisons the water and undermines everything else the club using that rider is trying to do. It also inflates the wage structure

He may have been on 50 quid a point at the first club but by circumventing the process you have immediately made a 50 quid a point rider think he's worth double that 

Where as if you had followed the process you would have said to the rider "mate we will give you 5 quid a point more than you were getting last year" he's happy you have saved 45 quid a point and when you drop him half way through or at the end of the season he isn't on this ego trip where he thinks he's worth 100 quid a point as a reserve.

But no some folk don't want to do that they want to ring every rider they can without following a process and say they will double their wages. Then pick the best 7 from the 27 they have had a go at and the other clubs can kiss their proverbial butts cos they want to do what they want to do...

Some attitude that eh!!!

Go for it I say and when there are 7 or 8 professional clubs left in the country and the rest are amateurs good on ya it's the "in maxim" these days "screw you I'm alright Jack"

Regards 

THJ 

Edited November 22, 2018 by TotallyHonestJohn
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