foreverblue 6,091 Posted December 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, DC2 said: No. Every year I criticise any rule or anomaly that undermines the principle of “equalisation” for team-building, whichever team it favours. While a a 1.5 conversion rate from PL to CL may be desirable to discourage doubling down by PL riders, it does not necessarily follow that it should be applied the other way. Otherwise you could end up with CL riders starting with false averages every year in the PL and being able to double up for as long as they’re picked. Exactly what the 1.5 rate was trying to prevent. That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average, the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted December 18, 2018 56 minutes ago, DC2 said: No. Every year I criticise any rule or anomaly that undermines the principle of “equalisation” for team-building, whichever team it favours. While a a 1.5 conversion rate from PL to CL may be desirable to discourage doubling down by PL riders, it does not necessarily follow that it should be applied the other way. Otherwise you could end up with CL riders starting with false averages every year in the PL and being able to double up for as long as they’re picked. Exactly what the 1.5 rate was trying to prevent. That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted December 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, foreverblue said: That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average, the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies. It’s nothing that a bit of thought couldn’t have resolved. Bjerre and Barker etc to come back on their existing PL averages, Busk Jacobsen (like Berge) to come back in on his existing assessed PL average (5) as he has PL experience and other CL riders to step up on a realistic conversion rate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, NeilWatson said: That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019. I meant CL riders who are new to the PL will start on a false average if the 1.5 rate is applied in reverse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted December 18, 2018 None of M Riss, Etheridge, T Kurtz, Wajtknecht or J B Andersson managed a 1.5 PL to CL conversion this year so why should Barker, Bjerre and Busk Jakobsen, all of whom have PL experience, or a newcomer benefit from it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wealdstone 3,454 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, DC2 said: No. Every year I criticise any rule or anomaly that undermines the principle of “equalisation” for team-building, whichever team it favours. While a a 1.5 conversion rate from PL to CL may be desirable to discourage doubling down by PL riders, it does not necessarily follow that it should be applied the other way. Otherwise you could end up with CL riders starting with false averages every year in the PL and being able to double up for as long as they’re picked. Exactly what the 1.5 rate was trying to prevent. All are equal but some are more equal than others Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted December 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, DC2 said: None of M Riss, Etheridge, T Kurtz, Wajtknecht or J B Andersson managed a 1.5 PL to CL conversion this year so why should Barker, Bjerre and Busk Jakobsen, all of whom have PL experience, or a newcomer benefit from it? Because Riss, Etheridge, Todd Kurtz, Wajtknecht and JB Andersen all rode in the Premiership in 2018. You may disagree with the rule, but it is there in black and white for all to see and being applied consistently (as far as I can tell). 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,091 Posted December 18, 2018 27 minutes ago, DC2 said: It’s nothing that a bit of thought couldn’t have resolved. Bjerre and Barker etc to come back on their existing PL averages, Busk Jacobsen (like Berge) to come back in on his existing assessed PL average (5) as he has PL experience and other CL riders to step up on a realistic conversion rate. Why should a rider revert to an assessed average when he already has an official average in the CL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,659 Posted December 18, 2018 47 minutes ago, NeilWatson said: That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019. You know the averages given to Bjerre and Barker are pathetically wrong. They both have established averages from 2017 and should be on those, in the same way any other rider that doesn't double up. When rider's miss a season or 2 they maintain their average when they come back. This should be the same for doubling up rider's, especially as they've only missed the top league for 1 year. You know how lucky you are having those 2 in the side and you know it. Not having a pop at you or Peterborough who have assembled a cracking team, but you know that ruling is wrong. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, MattK said: Because Riss, Etheridge, Todd Kurtz, Wajtknecht and JB Andersen all rode in the Premiership in 2018. You may disagree with the rule, but it is there in black and white for all to see and being applied consistently (as far as I can tell). Where is it “in black and white for all to see”? The BSPA AGM press release mentioned only a conversion rate for PL riders wishing to double down, suggesting that it had been loaded to discourage that. It did not say that it applied in reverse and that consequently a number of CL riders could come up to the PL on ridiculous bargain averages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, foreverblue said: Why should a rider revert to an assessed average when he already has an official average in the CL. He’s had an official average in the CL for years but that didn’t stop him being given a PL assessed average. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: You know the averages given to Bjerre and Barker are pathetically wrong. They both have established averages from 2017 and should be on those, in the same way any other rider that doesn't double up. When rider's miss a season or 2 they maintain their average when they come back. This should be the same for doubling up rider's, especially as they've only missed the top league for 1 year. You know how lucky you are having those 2 in the side and you know it. Not having a pop at you or Peterborough who have assembled a cracking team, but you know that ruling is wrong. They are decent reserves but Barker ( who i like and enjoy watching is on the wane) Bjerre never been a fan of.Saying that they do look a good partnership but there is a slight niggle there for me that i am not convinced i do prefer Poole reserves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted December 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, DC2 said: Where is it “in black and white for all to see”? The BSPA AGM press release mentioned only a conversion rate for PL riders wishing to double down, suggesting that it had been loaded to discourage that. It did not say that it applied in reverse and that consequently a number of CL riders could come up to the PL on ridiculous bargain averages. The regulations (albeit for 2018) states: "16.2.7 The most recently established MA will be used. If a rider has an established MA in both the Premiership and Championship Leagues, established in the same season, that leagues MA will apply to that league." Therefore, Barker and Bjerre will use their CL MA as it is the most recent. Similarly, the AGM Statement says: "Conversion rate for 2019 will be 1.5" The conversion rate has always worked both ways, otherwise how else do you calculate a rider with a CL average's PL converted average? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazyb 156 Posted December 18, 2018 8 hours ago, stevebrum said: Certainly from the start of the season, end of season however is totally dependant on staying injury free and other teams strengthening up. All about staying injury free: Panthers know all about that from last season 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,820 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, crazyb said: All about staying injury free: Panthers know all about that from last season Panthers, like Kings Lynn in the top flight and Mildenhall in the NL had a injury ravaged end to the season. I think all 3 would have won there titles if it weren’t for injuries. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
