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On 11/16/2018 at 3:04 PM, Humphrey Appleby said:

Rider allocation, centrally-contracted riders, wage control, standardised equipment and procurement thereof are all possibilities. 

All possible within an Association. Limited liability company not required. Will however provide protection to officers of the organisation. 

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Shareholder in a private limited company have to be invited to join. Who are the actual shareholders?

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1 hour ago, MD said:

Shareholder in a private limited company have to be invited to join. Who are the actual shareholders?

Would guess it would be established as a company limited by guarantee, with the track owners as the company members.

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21 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Which costs need reducing to achieve lower admission costs? 

For me it's just rider's wages the clubs can really look at. The cost to the rider's is irrelevant for lowering admission costs. Lower a rider's wage they have a choice to make, keep up the expense out of their own pocket or find a new supply chain / engine tuner at lower costs.

Wages will constitute one of the biggest, if not the biggest cost for a promotion, and is something that the collective will of the promoters can control unlike most other costs.

No point simply saying reduce wages and the rest will follow, because there's a certain inherent costs involved in manufacturing small numbers of specialised engines, and then finding the handful of rebuilders/tuners to maintain them.

Of course the equipment costs have got beyond the point of stupidity and what can be afforded, but it's partly incumbent on the promoters to find solutions to that - either through bulk purchase of engines, maintaining a common pool of engines, or severely restricting how engines can be modded (and that still won't stop the use of selected parts engines).

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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36 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Wages will constitute one of the biggest, if not the biggest cost for a promotion, and is something that the collective will of the promoters can control unlike most other costs.

No point simply saying reduce wages and the rest will follow, because there's a certain inherent costs involved in manufacturing small numbers of specialised engines, and then finding the handful of rebuilders/tuners to maintain them.

Of course the equipment costs have got beyond the point of stupidity and what can be afforded, but it's partly incumbent on the promoters to find solutions to that - either through bulk purchase of engines, maintaining a common pool of engines, or severely restricting how engines can be modded (and that still won't stop the use of selected parts engines).

And that’s where holomagated parts only come in, it is not difficult to implement but there is no will to do it, there will always be a tiny advantage for someone somewhere but speedway is one of the very few motorsports that is all but a couple of rules a free for all, which is the reason prices have rocketed 

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55 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

And that’s where holomagated parts only come in, it is not difficult to implement but there is no will to do it, there will always be a tiny advantage for someone somewhere but speedway is one of the very few motorsports that is all but a couple of rules a free for all, which is the reason prices have rocketed 

WHICH is exactly why riders and promoters need to work together, at least as far as British speedway is concerned, to reduce costs for both parties.

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33 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

WHICH is exactly why riders and promoters need to work together, at least as far as British speedway is concerned, to reduce costs for both parties.

We all know this but getting any promoters or riders apart from chris Louis to go for this is banging your head against a brick wall 

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3 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Wages will constitute one of the biggest, if not the biggest cost for a promotion, and is something that the collective will of the promoters can control unlike most other costs.

No point simply saying reduce wages and the rest will follow, because there's a certain inherent costs involved in manufacturing small numbers of specialised engines, and then finding the handful of rebuilders/tuners to maintain them.

Of course the equipment costs have got beyond the point of stupidity and what can be afforded, but it's partly incumbent on the promoters to find solutions to that - either through bulk purchase of engines, maintaining a common pool of engines, or severely restricting how engines can be modded (and that still won't stop the use of selected parts engines).

Nonsense, the costs to a rider's equipment is nothing to do with the promoters. The clubs should only pay what they can afford and look to turn a profit. If the rider's find they can't afford the same or better equipment, tough. They should work doubly hard to find more sponsorship or pay for the upkeep themselves. 

Equipment responsibility is nothing to do with the promoters at all.

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14 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Nonsense, the costs to a rider's equipment is nothing to do with the promoters. The clubs should only pay what they can afford and look to turn a profit. If the rider's find they can't afford the same or better equipment, tough. They should work doubly hard to find more sponsorship or pay for the upkeep themselves. 

Equipment responsibility is nothing to do with the promoters at all.

Of course it has something to do with the promoters. Yes, teams should only pay what they can afford, but if enough riders turn round and say it costs x in order to be competitive against other riders and I'll be running at a loss, you'll not only lose riders from the sport, but there will be more competition for those riders that remain - effectively negating any cost savings, even assuming you can still find enough riders to populate the teams. 

Individual riders can't simply decide to cut back on equipment by themselves, and indeed sufficiently cheaper to buy and run engines may not even exist. Promoters need to legislate what can be run for the good of the sport, and if that means maintaining a central pool of engines maintained to a common standard, developing a lower cost engine and mandating its use, or whatever, then that's what needs to happen. Nothing will ever change if those running the sport absolve themselves of responsibility for controlling one of the biggest costs in the sport.

 

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If BSPA Ltd gets into unmanagable debt, it can be declared bankrupt and a new company, (e.g. BSPA (2020) Ltd) can be formed to carry on where the old one left off, but free of debt.

Just ask Terry Russell... who did exactly that with his GoSpeed incarnations. Wouldn't surprise me if Russell is the "brains" behind this venture too.

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21 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Of course it has something to do with the promoters. Yes, teams should only pay what they can afford, but if enough riders turn round and say it costs x in order to be competitive against other riders and I'll be running at a loss, you'll not only lose riders from the sport, but there will be more competition for those riders that remain - effectively negating any cost savings, even assuming you can still find enough riders to populate the teams. 

Individual riders can't simply decide to cut back on equipment by themselves, and indeed sufficiently cheaper to buy and run engines may not even exist. Promoters need to legislate what can be run for the good of the sport, and if that means maintaining a central pool of engines maintained to a common standard, developing a lower cost engine and mandating its use, or whatever, then that's what needs to happen. Nothing will ever change if those running the sport absolve themselves of responsibility for controlling one of the biggest costs in the sport.

 

Its not just the engines though and in fact even if the motors stayed the same riders can find substantial savings year on year. Riders do not need new frames every season (and several young Aussies come over and compete successfully on 2nd hand kit), new bike covers are not constantly required, wheels don't need to be replaced just bearings refreshed, clutch plates don't need to be £40 a plate and replaced every meeting when others are available at £10 a plate and do a very similar job. The most light weight items don't need to be purchased at higher costs than standard. Replacing everything when it shows slight wear or shale rash has become a mindset and that needs to change.

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21 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Of course it has something to do with the promoters. Yes, teams should only pay what they can afford, but if enough riders turn round and say it costs x in order to be competitive against other riders and I'll be running at a loss, you'll not only lose riders from the sport, but there will be more competition for those riders that remain - effectively negating any cost savings, even assuming you can still find enough riders to populate the teams. 

Individual riders can't simply decide to cut back on equipment by themselves, and indeed sufficiently cheaper to buy and run engines may not even exist. Promoters need to legislate what can be run for the good of the sport, and if that means maintaining a central pool of engines maintained to a common standard, developing a lower cost engine and mandating its use, or whatever, then that's what needs to happen. Nothing will ever change if those running the sport absolve themselves of responsibility for controlling one of the biggest costs in the sport.

 

Again, absolute utter nonsense. 

Rider's are 100% totally responsible for their equipment upkeep. They are self employed. Promoters are totally not responsible. As pointed out, rider's do not NEED brand new year in year out. You see it every season, even Championship 2nd strings are selling all their equipment for new year on year. This is totally irresponsible and promoter / clubs need to make a stand against this nonsense.

£150 per point in the Premiership should be the maximum paid to any rider. If rider's choose to spend big then they should find the money to fund this themselves by chasing more sponsorship etc. This shouldn't be the responsibility of qny club or promotion to fund.

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2 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Rider's are 100% totally responsible for their equipment upkeep. They are self employed. Promoters are totally not responsible.

One of the reasons speedway has got itself into the massive hole it has, is because both promoters and spectators have got themselves into the mindset that things have always been done in a certain way, so let's keep plugging away doing exactly the same thing regardless of whether it's actually appropriate for the modern world.

Is Lewis Hamilton responsible for building and fixing his car, or does Harry Kane buy his own kit and take it home himself to wash?

Of course not, so why on earth can't speedway reconsider how it does things? If, for example, the BSPA had a central pool of (say) 30-40 engines maintained by 2-3 engine builders to a contracted standard, which were allocated to riders at each meeting, there could be huge savings all round. 

Now the above may or may not be the right solution, but the only nonsense is when people are so blinkered that they're not receptive to considering change, or even worse just keep blindly heading down a path of failure. The harsh reality is that unless some workable solutions are tried to reduce costs all round, the sport is finished. 

Quote

As pointed out, rider's do not NEED brand new year in year out. You see it every season, even Championship 2nd strings are selling all their equipment for new year on year. This is totally irresponsible and promoter / clubs need to make a stand against this nonsense.

All very well but the first thing a promoter is going to say when a rider on old kit loses a race against another rider on new kit, is why isn't your gear up to scratch? And the fans of that team will likely be moaning about it as well.

Presumably though, someone must be buying all this second hand gear and using it somewhere, because you can't really use it for anything other than speedway.

Quote

£150 per point in the Premiership should be the maximum paid to any rider. If rider's choose to spend big then they should find the money to fund this themselves by chasing more sponsorship etc. This shouldn't be the responsibility of qny club or promotion to fund.

Well just cut the rider wages without doing anything else, and let's see where it gets the sport. My prediction would be a lot of riders just simply packing it in. :rolleyes:

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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33 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

BEHIND the scenes, as it were, moves are afoot to standardise equipment and reduce cost for riders, from the top to the bottom.

That along with the 2 min clock is good news at last 

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