Daniel Smith 5,645 Posted December 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, iwright71 said: It would probably do the forum good to be slimmed down in size and to mirror the current state of speedway to be populated by a hardy but small band of enthusiasts exuding positivity about the sport. Even the pro speedway, Speedway Star felt duty bound to produce a 45 page special edition of how the sport was in crisis , not much positivity in that particular issue. While on a positive note what exactly came out of this years AGM that is going to turn the sport around ? nothing as far as I can see. Its probable to expect a very similar season to last year with probably not as good weather, Everyone's biggest fear at the moment is Ipswich already are predicted by some to not see out the Premiership season with their predicted team. As with every club, when things don't go well fans do not turn up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spl77 337 Posted December 27, 2018 Watching my first elite hockey league game on free sports Sheffield v Nottingham....... Maybe the bspa should make a resolution to take a close look at how to run a fast paced adrenaline filled family sport. I'm sure not all those present came by the tag of bring a friend...... And now there playing the national anthem oh happy days! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,784 Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) On 12/27/2018 at 4:18 PM, iwright71 said: It would probably do the forum good to be slimmed down in size and to mirror the current state of speedway to be populated by a hardy but small band of enthusiasts exuding positivity about the sport. Even the pro speedway, Speedway Star felt duty bound to produce a 45 page special edition of how the sport was in crisis , not much positivity in that particular issue. While on a positive note what exactly came out of this years AGM that is going to turn the sport around ? nothing as far as I can see. Its probable to expect a very similar season to last year with probably not as good weather, Looking at the number of posts on here from, say, even 10 years back, I think people have taken it on themselves to slim the forum down by not bothering to post, not bothering to go (to matches), and not bothering if speedway still exists. And, if the World's Leading Speedway Magazine owns up that speedway is at a crisis, they rely on sales remember, and gives it a whole edition in the hope that promoters will be alerted, then I think ever decreasing small band of diehards that still exist on here should take note, more so the ones swimming against the tide. You can't run from the truth. Speedway is being chased by the grim reaper. Funny thing is, a lot of the diehards often spout on about not buying the Star anymore, they boast to finding out the news online. But then they criticise people who don't buy into the speedway product anymore and don't attend the track. It's called choice. Not buying the Star could be as lethal to the sport's longest-running magazine as not going to your track. I don't go to the track but still get the Speedway Star. Once I stop, my days of even being partly interested in the sport would have gone. Of course, trim down the posters in the BSF to positive ones. But next time you arrive at your local track and there's nothing else but a tumbleweed blowing across the terracing, remember... I told you so. At least by me still coming on here, I'm not another lost fan. Edited December 28, 2018 by moxey63 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bald Bloke 3,281 Posted December 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: Everyone's biggest fear at the moment is Ipswich already are predicted by some to not see out the Premiership season with their predicted team. As with every club, when things don't go well fans do not turn up. Lynn did very well in 2018. But you still get some that don't turn up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barrybishop 896 Posted December 28, 2018 On 12/26/2018 at 4:59 AM, Halifaxtiger said: In truth, I think promoters should take notice of every single avenue of customer comment wherever that might be. Just because feedback is given on the internet does not mean it is necessarily any less valid than that given verbally. I know Barry Bishop reads this forum regularly and interacts with its members (it is indicative that for every post he makes he gets three likes - a truly remarkable record and one that shows just how much members value his contribution) but he is pretty much alone. Unfortunately, most regard the BSF as 'utterly without credibility' and ignore it. To me, that is very wrong - any business that chooses not to listen to its customers is asking for trouble. I once told then Sheffield promoter David Hoggart that it is a matter of sorting the wheat from the chaff and it remains so today. There are trolls, serial complainers and ex fans with a grudge but there are many who genuinely care and attend regularly. The other thing I would say is that I have had very mixed experiences in approaching promoters direct when being critical. Reactions have ranged from careful interest (Martin Widman springs to mind) to dismissal and outright abuse. If you think you are going to get fair hearing, fine. Be prepared, however, to be completely disillusioned. that's correct, and I really do see great value in reading through the posts on the forum. It gives me an insight to people’s views, some of course you read more quickly than others but in general I find the forum informative and insightful. It also enables me to see the pitfalls of other clubs as well as feedback of my own and ways in which fans feel the product could be generally be improved. My personal view is we must all look to the future and not back. Yes we can enhance the future from the experience of yesterday but the future market for speedway is a very much different playing ground. To go back to the point of the post about 2019, what I can tell you all is that we have proven that a very positive outlook, continual strive to improve our product, entertainment, facility and overall performance (and ensure that we make as many people as possible know what and how we do it) and a general feeling of a community driven fun filled night out, really has worked. Let me give 2 examples….. Last season we had an individual meeting where through no fault of our own (travel problems and then no time to replace due to ferry) we were 2 riders down for an individual meeting. To be honest I was horrified… what do I tell our public, how do I tell them… In truth I sought the opinion of fans and asked their view before the meeting….. I was actually told by the fans not to worry it will be OK… however, while taking this onboard I still got on the mic and explained the situation and invited everyone for a free tea, coffee or cold drink…. Complaints zero… people who actually requested their free drink, zero. Finally, our shale issue… many clubs include us had the 2018 shale disaster…. Let me tell you for us it was a nightmare, not only financially but also track preparation. Basically, the shale produced too much dust due to the clay being reconstituted and not natural clay, that meant every meeting we spent a day relaying the track and slowly removing the unusable shale. Every meeting I stood before the crowd and told them where the dust would come, the status of our complaint with the vendor and how we progressed. Complaints about dust -zero. New sponsors 1. Positivity and belief in your show is a very powerful thing to have and once your crowd and sponsors join it with this the momentum could be huge. Our momentum continues to grow and I very much hope that we can continue to build upon our first three years. Thanks again for your continued comment, I hope that some of you can make it to the island this season or even to one of our away meetings – I will be very happy to meet you. Really finally, if any of you are interested to support our club (we have many long distance sponsors) then please do get in touch. Amazingly, I can prove how sponsorship works with us for business and how we cater for sponsorship at all levels. Email speedwayontheisland@yahoo.co.uk if this is for you. See you trackside, stay positive and constructive and we will come out the other side and remember your thought and comment is appreciated, at least where I am sitting anyways. All the best 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted December 29, 2018 On 12/27/2018 at 4:18 PM, iwright71 said: It would probably do the forum good to be slimmed down in size and to mirror the current state of speedway to be populated by a hardy but small band of enthusiasts exuding positivity about the sport. Even the pro speedway, Speedway Star felt duty bound to produce a 45 page special edition of how the sport was in crisis , not much positivity in that particular issue. While on a positive note what exactly came out of this years AGM that is going to turn the sport around ? nothing as far as I can see. Its probable to expect a very similar season to last year with probably not as good weather, It would be better than a hardy but large band of ex supporters who only come on to slag it off. It still remains beyond me why, if you have absolutely no interest in speedway and/or couldn't care less about it, you would continue to be a member of a speedway forum. What the BSF needs are balanced, objective views that can give both criticism and credit where appropriate. Those views must be informed - which is why those of persons actually attending are of considerably more value. After all, how can you comment on the value for money provided by a meeting if you don't actually go ? It is nonsense to suggest that those who do continue to turn up week after week are overwhelmingly positive. As I have said before, I know of no current fan who is like that. They are all deeply concerned about speedway's future prospects and the survival of individual clubs and are often both angry and frustrated at decisions made by the BSPA - as an example, read the comments regarding the decisions to force Lakeside, Peterborough & Workington to change race nights. The only blinkered ones are those who used to go but don't now. They have a totally one sided view. I am not certain which edition of Speedway Star you are referring to but, in December's issue, Peter Oakes has his 'winners and losers' column. In it, he lavishes praise on two of my favourite teams - Belle Vue and Isle of Wight. He describes the NSS as a 'brilliant, brilliant stage' (he's right) and refers to the Warriors promotion creating a 'community asset' and 'rarely have a couple of promoters turned a club around the way they have on the Isle of Wight (again, he's right). He (and the Star) are most certainly critical elsewhere, but clearly there are, at least to him, positives. The positive note for 2019 is that there are 27 clubs this season, down by only 1 (and that is due to Lakeside losing their stadium). The Elite League remains in existence. We have a television deal (I have actually heard that Sky want speedway back). Treading water, maybe, but if you read some of the comments on here it is quite incredible that there is anything left at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Stadia 1,062 Posted December 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: It would be better than a hardy but large band of ex supporters who only come on to slag it off. It still remains beyond me why, if you have absolutely no interest in speedway and/or couldn't care less about it, you would continue to be a member of a speedway forum. What the BSF needs are balanced, objective views that can give both criticism and credit where appropriate. Those views must be informed - which is why those of persons actually attending are of considerably more value. After all, how can you comment on the value for money provided by a meeting if you don't actually go ? It is nonsense to suggest that those who do continue to turn up week after week are overwhelmingly positive. As I have said before, I know of no current fan who is like that. They are all deeply concerned about speedway's future prospects and the survival of individual clubs and are often both angry and frustrated at decisions made by the BSPA - as an example, read the comments regarding the decisions to force Lakeside, Peterborough & Workington to change race nights. The only blinkered ones are those who used to go but don't now. They have a totally one sided view. I am not certain which edition of Speedway Star you are referring to but, in December's issue, Peter Oakes has his 'winners and losers' column. In it, he lavishes praise on two of my favourite teams - Belle Vue and Isle of Wight. He describes the NSS as a 'brilliant, brilliant stage' (he's right) and refers to the Warriors promotion creating a 'community asset' and 'rarely have a couple of promoters turned a club around the way they have on the Isle of Wight (again, he's right). He (and the Star) are most certainly critical elsewhere, but clearly there are, at least to him, positives. The positive note for 2019 is that there are 27 clubs this season, down by only 1 (and that is due to Lakeside losing their stadium). The Elite League remains in existence. We have a television deal (I have actually heard that Sky want speedway back). Treading water, maybe, but if you read some of the comments on here it is quite incredible that there is anything left at all. Surely down by 2, Rye House and Lakeside. Although I think Rye is still being used for amateur non-BSPA speedway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said: Surely down by 2, Rye House and Lakeside. Although I think Rye is still being used for amateur non-BSPA speedway. I was looking at the end of the season, not the beginning. Whatever the case, my point remains : reading some of the comments on here, you would think it quite incredible that there would be 7, never mind 27. Edited December 29, 2018 by Halifaxtiger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwright71 206 Posted December 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said: It would be better than a hardy but large band of ex supporters who only come on to slag it off. It still remains beyond me why, if you have absolutely no interest in speedway and/or couldn't care less about it, you would continue to be a member of a speedway forum. What the BSF needs are balanced, objective views that can give both criticism and credit where appropriate. Those views must be informed - which is why those of persons actually attending are of considerably more value. After all, how can you comment on the value for money provided by a meeting if you don't actually go ? It is nonsense to suggest that those who do continue to turn up week after week are overwhelmingly positive. As I have said before, I know of no current fan who is like that. They are all deeply concerned about speedway's future prospects and the survival of individual clubs and are often both angry and frustrated at decisions made by the BSPA - as an example, read the comments regarding the decisions to force Lakeside, Peterborough & Workington to change race nights. The only blinkered ones are those who used to go but don't now. They have a totally one sided view. I am not certain which edition of Speedway Star you are referring to but, in December's issue, Peter Oakes has his 'winners and losers' column. In it, he lavishes praise on two of my favourite teams - Belle Vue and Isle of Wight. He describes the NSS as a 'brilliant, brilliant stage' (he's right) and refers to the Warriors promotion creating a 'community asset' and 'rarely have a couple of promoters turned a club around the way they have on the Isle of Wight (again, he's right). He (and the Star) are most certainly critical elsewhere, but clearly there are, at least to him, positives. The positive note for 2019 is that there are 27 clubs this season, down by only 1 (and that is due to Lakeside losing their stadium). The Elite League remains in existence. We have a television deal (I have actually heard that Sky want speedway back). Treading water, maybe, but if you read some of the comments on here it is quite incredible that there is anything left at all. You are correct about the number of teams, but for a balanced view having 7 teams in the top flight is embarrassing ,with 3 being owned by the same man and the top 4 reaching the play offs.. The top flight needs 10 clubs minimum I'm sure Sky had a clause that it must be at least 8, can't see Sky wanting the Premier League on that basis, they may still want SGP, SON though . Yes British speedway does have a TV deal but it is worth nothing to the clubs, its on a par with women's football. As I said I can't think of one decision at the AGM that will pull this back. As for Belle Vue, they have arguably the best circuit in the world but It won't be full next year and I guarantee there will still be moans about having to ride on Monday nights . Personally don't think fixed race nights work in Britain but the promoters disagree . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted December 30, 2018 19 hours ago, iwright71 said: You are correct about the number of teams, but for a balanced view having 7 teams in the top flight is embarrassing ,with 3 being owned by the same man and the top 4 reaching the play offs.. The top flight needs 10 clubs minimum I'm sure Sky had a clause that it must be at least 8, can't see Sky wanting the Premier League on that basis, they may still want SGP, SON though . Yes British speedway does have a TV deal but it is worth nothing to the clubs, its on a par with women's football. As I said I can't think of one decision at the AGM that will pull this back. As for Belle Vue, they have arguably the best circuit in the world but It won't be full next year and I guarantee there will still be moans about having to ride on Monday nights . Personally don't think fixed race nights work in Britain but the promoters disagree . Bear in mind that in the 1989 & 1990 seasons there were 9 teams in the top flight, and 26 teams overall. In 2019, that's 2 less in the top flight and 1 more overall. Without the loss of stadiums, its entirely possible that both Coventry and Lakeside would still be operating. People were certainly predicting the demise of speedway then; 30 years later, its still here. Multi track bosses aren't unusual, either. The likes of Reg Fearman and Mike Parker spring to mind. My understanding is that the TV contract in 2019 does pay the clubs (although I stand to be corrected on that) and even if it doesn't, its still worth a huge amount. The BSPA certainly thought so as they picked up the production costs tab for the first year of the BT broadcasts. Sky were apparently very happy with their speedway coverage and viewing figures and I am not certain that 7 clubs rather than 8 would make much difference (although I too heard 8 was a minimum). I have been told on good authority that they want speedway back (they probably saw that heat 13 from Belle Vue ). According to Adrian Smith at the Belle Vue fans forum a couple of weeks ago, in school holiday periods they get bigger attendances on a Monday than they do on Fridays Its not my intention to be hopelessly optimistic here. I have heard some frightening loss figures for last season, and I am genuinely surprised that a couple of tracks are still operating. Presentation, the quality of racing and customer care are areas in which speedway often falls down and self interest is still disastrously prevalent. If, however, you read certain posters, they haven't a single good word to say and that's simply not the case at all. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, iwright71 said: You are correct about the number of teams, but for a balanced view having 7 teams in the top flight is embarrassing ,with 3 being owned by the same man and the top 4 reaching the play offs.. The top flight needs 10 clubs minimum I'm sure Sky had a clause that it must be at least 8, can't see Sky wanting the Premier League on that basis, they may still want SGP, SON though . Yes British speedway does have a TV deal but it is worth nothing to the clubs, its on a par with women's football. As I said I can't think of one decision at the AGM that will pull this back. As for Belle Vue, they have arguably the best circuit in the world but It won't be full next year and I guarantee there will still be moans about having to ride on Monday nights . Personally don't think fixed race nights work in Britain but the promoters disagree . ...Martin Rogers (one time Promoter amongst other attributes) was quoted in a recent article in 'Backtrack' that he feels that tracks should run on a day that suits their particular needs and circumstances. I recall many years ago, however, when Oxford moved to Fridays from their traditional Thursdays it was met with approval because it enabled potential night shift workers at Cowley to attend as well as the usual 'kids don't have to get up for school in the morning'...although that never affected me as a school kid when Oxford ran on Thursdays (never mind weekly trips to 'the smoke' on Wednesdays following 'The Rebels' at Wood Lane whilst studying for my 'O' levels) and I've always felt that a poor excuse and/or reason for a choice of race night. Then there were grumbles when years later they reverted back to their traditional Thursday! Edited December 30, 2018 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adonis 1,454 Posted December 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said: Bear in mind that in the 1989 & 1990 seasons there were 9 teams in the top flight, and 26 teams overall. In 2019, that's 2 less in the top flight and 1 more overall. Without the loss of stadiums, its entirely possible that both Coventry and Lakeside would still be operating. People were certainly predicting the demise of speedway then; 30 years later, its still here. Multi track bosses aren't unusual, either. The likes of Reg Fearman and Mike Parker spring to mind. My understanding is that the TV contract in 2019 does pay the clubs (although I stand to be corrected on that) and even if it doesn't, its still worth a huge amount. The BSPA certainly thought so as they picked up the production costs tab for the first year of the BT broadcasts. Sky were apparently very happy with their speedway coverage and viewing figures and I am not certain that 7 clubs rather than 8 would make much difference (although I too heard 8 was a minimum). I have been told on good authority that they want speedway back (they probably saw that heat 13 from Belle Vue ). According to Adrian Smith at the Belle Vue fans forum a couple of weeks ago, in school holiday periods they get bigger attendances on a Monday than they do on Fridays Its not my intention to be hopelessly optimistic here. I have heard some frightening loss figures for last season, and I am genuinely surprised that a couple of tracks are still operating. Presentation, the quality of racing and customer care are areas in which speedway often falls down and self interest is still disastrously prevalent. If, however, you read certain posters, they haven't a single good word to say and that's simply not the case at all. there must have been some truth in sky wanting 8 teams , In the winter of discontent , the BSPA were more than happy to continue discussions with Coventry and Peterborough , while doubt remained over Belle Vue and Leicester , as soon as they were Confirmed starters along with Kings Lynn who took 50 pieces of silver to step up .Bspa were quite happy to grab their TV money and leave Coventry and PBoro to close Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Byker Biker 468 Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, adonis said: there must have been some truth in sky wanting 8 teams , In the winter of discontent , the BSPA were more than happy to continue discussions with Coventry and Peterborough , while doubt remained over Belle Vue and Leicester , as soon as they were Confirmed starters along with Kings Lynn who took 50 pieces of silver to step up .Bspa were quite happy to grab their TV money and leave Coventry and PBoro to close 8 Teams was the contractual minimum, below that would have allowed Sky to walk away from the agreement had they wanted to. The viewing figures were more than acceptable, had the number of clubs dropped below 8 and the audience figures been affected then yes maybe they would have cancelled the contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwright71 206 Posted December 30, 2018 33 minutes ago, Byker Biker said: 8 Teams was the contractual minimum, below that would have allowed Sky to walk away from the agreement had they wanted to. The viewing figures were more than acceptable, had the number of clubs dropped below 8 and the audience figures been affected then yes maybe they would have cancelled the contract. Sky did cancel their contract with British speedway, Halfway through their last deal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, iwright71 said: Sky did cancel their contract with British speedway, Halfway through their last deal Yes, but was explained as being they had spent too much money on the Football Premier League TV rights, and had to cut out several small sports such as Speedway. It was not because they had a problem with Speedway or it's viewing figures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites