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TonyMac

Time British Speedway went AMATEUR

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You also have promotors saying all is well, then shutting a club and owing riders thousands as the manager who continued the party line of büllsheet just goes to another club and will no doubt repeat the cycle again. 

 

It’s already amateur, and crooked. 

Edited by Jonny the spud
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There are some nails being not just hit on the head here but smashed. Having so many voices and opinions will always cause division as some want to see the sports very best riders & others want close even racing. Some think its vastly over priced others consider it value. There will never be full agreements but without sustainable clubs there will be nothing left. 

Outsiders if you like, new to speedway spectators want to see drama, action, close racing with the element of risk that the odd tumble brings. Look at speedway promo's how many are slow motion shots of riders side by side. Tracks could be small sand covered circles for all "outsiders" care as long as there are 4 equal riders racing shoulder to shoulder for 4 laps. As long as the riders are simply identifiable and there is drama plus lets face it how many established fans want much more from the sport either.   

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30 minutes ago, mikebv said:

The plan they follow is astoundingly unfit for purpose. In fact it is so far away from being suitable it is truly laughable to think sane men and women sign it off every year..

Promoters spend hours contriving meetings, cobbled together with random septets that some cannot afford, sharing riders together, and all to win a competition which, by their very own operating model, is rendered completely worthless...

They collectively must spend literally Milions hundreds of pounds each year, all trying to win a competition that they 100% completely devalue by the very way that they run it....

You seriously couldn't make it up could you? 

Lets be honest, who cares who wins a Speedway prize in the UK? It has zero kudos. So therefore how do you ever hope to attract a crowd to engage with it?

You then compound the issue by putting together 'teams' of random riders who may be available to ride for you if they haven't got another better paying job on, or are already double booked elsewhere, and expect fans to become emotionally attached to that club. (Like a team sport should get you involved)..

The riders they sign are then expected to have the best equipment at their disposal to 'win' some silverware. The best equipment that costs them a ridiculous amount each year. And all to keep up with other riders who are doing exactly the same..

The riders then (quite understandably) wants recompense for their increased annual outlay. Outlay that actually achieves nothing more than allowing them to 'run to stand still' against their peers. Peers who will be paying out the same, to the same people, using the same top equipment, and getting it expensively tuned by the same tuners..

The Promoters therefore then pay out those Millions of pounds to the riders in the vain hope that they can win something hardly anyone cares about, as 99.9% of the population of this country don't attend a single Speedway meeting (and a big percentage won't even know it exists)..

Just to add further 'magic' to the cunning plan, meetings are often arranged around their riders agenda rather than when the fans can attend, leaving meetings crammed in in the dark days of winter after having months of summer devoid of Speedway..

You can then add on an admission fee that is set at the level it is to desperately offset the huge outlay that they choose to pay out, rather than a reflection of the quality of what they are actually selling..

All of the above plan has no place or investment for a national marketing plan it should be noted...

Millions paid to riders that the vast majority of the UK have never heard of. In a sport that most people have never heard of. Yet hardly anything spent on marketing..

 It should go amateur?

Could that be regarded as a step up in certain areas?

 

 

 

 

Can you see if you can get a slot at the next BSPA AGM, would make a great presentation to kick off the event.  Hard to disagree with anything you've said.

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A description of a team I remember from the past was a team being described as a 'Cinderella Team', I seem to remember the old Scunthorpe set-up being called that. My understanding of that expression was that they limped on, season to season operating on a wing and a prayer. It seems to me, all speedway teams can currently be described as Cinderella Teams. Maybe the description is still used, but I am sure I haven't heard it for years.  

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1 hour ago, mikebv said:

The plan they follow is astoundingly unfit for purpose. In fact it is so far away from being suitable it is truly laughable to think sane men and women sign it off every year..

Promoters spend hours contriving meetings, cobbled together with random septets that some cannot afford, sharing riders together, and all to win a competition which, by their very own operating model, is rendered completely worthless...

They collectively must spend literally Milions hundreds of pounds each year, all trying to win a competition that they 100% completely devalue by the very way that they run it....

You seriously couldn't make it up could you? 

Lets be honest, who cares who wins a Speedway prize in the UK? It has zero kudos. So therefore how do you ever hope to attract a crowd to engage with it?

You then compound the issue by putting together 'teams' of random riders who may be available to ride for you if they haven't got another better paying job on, or are already double booked elsewhere, and expect fans to become emotionally attached to that club. (Like a team sport should get you involved)..

The riders they sign are then expected to have the best equipment at their disposal to 'win' some silverware. The best equipment that costs them a ridiculous amount each year. And all to keep up with other riders who are doing exactly the same..

The riders then (quite understandably) wants recompense for their increased annual outlay. Outlay that actually achieves nothing more than allowing them to 'run to stand still' against their peers. Peers who will be paying out the same, to the same people, using the same top equipment, and getting it expensively tuned by the same tuners..

The Promoters therefore then pay out those Millions of pounds to the riders in the vain hope that they can win something hardly anyone cares about, as 99.9% of the population of this country don't attend a single Speedway meeting (and a big percentage won't even know it exists)..

Just to add further 'magic' to the cunning plan, meetings are often arranged around their riders agenda rather than when the fans can attend, leaving meetings crammed in in the dark days of winter after having months of summer devoid of Speedway..

You can then add on an admission fee that is set at the level it is to desperately offset the huge outlay that they choose to pay out, rather than a reflection of the quality of what they are actually selling..

All of the above plan has no place or investment for a national marketing plan it should be noted...

Millions paid to riders that the vast majority of the UK have never heard of. In a sport that most people have never heard of. Yet hardly anything spent on marketing..

 It should go amateur?

Could that be regarded as a step up in certain areas?

 

 

 

 

Well said!

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1 hour ago, mikebv said:

Yet hardly anything spent on marketing..

And that has been the case for all of this century. Firstly the BSPA saw the Sky contract as doing enough to "market" the sport in the UK . Oh and for the "loadsa money" that came with it - almost none of which was re-invested in the sport.

And with the evolution of the internet that meant they could do the "marketing" almost FOC - and believe that it will do all the work for them!

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There is a lot said about speedways aging fan base, but very little about the ancient promoters running the sport. What's needed is some younger people with fresh ideas to shake the whole thing up.

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5 hours ago, Mr Snackette said:

My question is very simple:

WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO CHOOSES TO RIDE A SPEEDWAY BIKE EXPECT TO BE PAID?

My son drives a Hot Rod. Apart from the support of some very generous sponsors, he meets the rest of the cost out of his own pocket! He even pays to compete.

WHAT MAKES A SPEEDWAY RIDER SO SPECIAL?

Like myself nobody tells your son when and where he can race. Nobody fines him if he doesn't fancy riding that day. Nobody will force him to ride in conditions he thinks are dangerous. Nobody expects him to travel the length and breadth of the country often at little notice in order to race in the middle of the working week.

No other motorsport is a genuine team sport and therefore Speedway riders are a special case because there are expectations put on them that aren't put on other racers.

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doesn't have to be completely amateur but just don't pay what you can't afford. Its that simple really

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21 minutes ago, ch958 said:

doesn't have to be completely amateur but just don't pay what you can't afford. Its that simple really

Because what promoters can really afford is so low, due to poor crowds, lack of big sponsors and large overheads, by definition riders (certainly in the lower two leagues) would inevitably become amateur/part-time.

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2 hours ago, Vince said:

Like myself nobody tells your son when and where he can race. Nobody fines him if he doesn't fancy riding that day. Nobody will force him to ride in conditions he thinks are dangerous. Nobody expects him to travel the length and breadth of the country often at little notice in order to race in the middle of the working week.

No other motorsport is a genuine team sport and therefore Speedway riders are a special case because there are expectations put on them that aren't put on other racers.

Agree with this except that the sport has done away with individual meetings, open track licences etc. and therefore is a closed shop. Ride for a club and do as they say or your options are limited to non existent. The riders are not a special case it is those in charge who limit or restrict the options for young talent to be involved in competitive racing which is what they need to really test them and they do this by saying in the main, it is team racing or nothing. You could also blame the clubs who vote through decisions at the AGM and cannot see further then the next team meeting. Without the open meetings and/or a decent second half to the main match in which it is open to all comers of a reasonable standard where they can race against more  experienced riders, the talent that is around will take much longer to come through the ranks and probably lose the will to live before they ever make a mark in the sport.

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4 hours ago, Vince said:

Like myself nobody tells your son when and where he can race. Nobody fines him if he doesn't fancy riding that day. Nobody will force him to ride in conditions he thinks are dangerous. Nobody expects him to travel the length and breadth of the country often at little notice in order to race in the middle of the working week.

No other motorsport is a genuine team sport and therefore Speedway riders are a special case because there are expectations put on them that aren't put on other racers.

The fragility of your argument is that "nobody tells" a  speedway rider that he has to sign a contract, thereby facing the type of sanctions that you outlined.

THAT'S THE CHOICE HE MAKES!

At the end of the day it is becoming increasingly apparent that the sport in the UK can no longer sustain the amount of money going out of the sport to fund riders. 

In fact my son DOES  "travel the length and breadth of the country", but at his expense and with his sponsors support. He the pays to compete, and if he picks up the odd bit of prize money and the occasional trophy, this is just the icing on the cake. His real motivation is the opportunity he has to participate in a sport he loves!

So I ask the question again: 

WHAT MAKES A SPEEDWAY RIDER SO BLOODY SPECIAL?

 

Edited by Mr Snackette
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9 hours ago, Mr Snackette said:

The fragility of your argument is that "nobody tells" a  speedway rider that he has to sign a contract, thereby facing the type of sanctions that you outlined.

THAT'S THE CHOICE HE MAKES!

At the end of the day it is becoming increasingly apparent that the sport in the UK can no longer sustain the amount of money going out of the sport to fund riders. 

In fact my son DOES  "travel the length and breadth of the country", but at his expense and with his sponsors support. He the pays to compete, and if he picks up the odd bit of prize money and the occasional trophy, this is just the icing on the cake. His real motivation is the opportunity he has to participate in a sport he loves!

So I ask the question again: 

WHAT MAKES A SPEEDWAY RIDER SO BLOODY SPECIAL?

 

THEY MAKE THAT CHOICE ONLY BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO AS THEY GET PAID FOR IT.

IF THEY DON'T GET PAID TEAM SPEEDWAY WILL DIE BECAUSE IF THEY CHOOSE TO RIDE AS AMATUERS THE WILL DO SO LOCALLY AT WEEKENDS.

TEAM RACING IS WHAT MAKES SPEEDWAY SPECIAL, BEING AVAILABLE TO RIDE ANY DAY ANYWHERE IS WHAT MAKES A SPEEDWAY RIDER SO BLOODY SPECIAL!

DOES WRITING IN LARGE BOLD CAPITALS MAKE EITHER OF OUR POINTS MORE RELEVANT?

I too travel the length and breadth of the country racing, however it is completely my decision when and where I ride just like it is your sons and I'm not riding several times some weeks. That is why we pay to race and in my case there is no prize money at all. I too do so because I love the sport I choose to participate in. However that is nothing to do with why Speedway riders need at least some payment as I explained in my last post. What the sport can afford is a different matter but almost nobody would be ale to afford to ride league Speedway unpaid.

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1 hour ago, Vince said:

THEY MAKE THAT CHOICE ONLY BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO AS THEY GET PAID FOR IT.

IF THEY DON'T GET PAID TEAM SPEEDWAY WILL DIE BECAUSE IF THEY CHOOSE TO RIDE AS AMATUERS THE WILL DO SO LOCALLY AT WEEKENDS.

TEAM RACING IS WHAT MAKES SPEEDWAY SPECIAL, BEING AVAILABLE TO RIDE ANY DAY ANYWHERE IS WHAT MAKES A SPEEDWAY RIDER SO BLOODY SPECIAL!

DOES WRITING IN LARGE BOLD CAPITALS MAKE EITHER OF OUR POINTS MORE RELEVANT?

I too travel the length and breadth of the country racing, however it is completely my decision when and where I ride just like it is your sons and I'm not riding several times some weeks. That is why we pay to race and in my case there is no prize money at all. I too do so because I love the sport I choose to participate in. However that is nothing to do with why Speedway riders need at least some payment as I explained in my last post. What the sport can afford is a different matter but almost nobody would be ale to afford to ride league Speedway unpaid.

Writing in bold is good though, for those of us with dodgy minces! But 'squaring the circle' is what this thread is all about. Riders have financial needs, yes, but there are not enough punters or promoters with deep enough pockets to meet the costs. So speedway either limps along as it has done and hopes a miracle happens or in other words, speedway buries its head in the sand or someone or some thing, grasps the nettle and starts to think outside the box. 

Edited by Ray Stadia
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As has been often covered Speedway has such a unique setup that it makes it very hard to implement a one size fits all approach. We have tracks that are owned outright and used solely for Speedway, owned but multi use, leased solely for speedway and leased dual purpose. The majority of stadia require Speedway to continue to bring any value to those venues. Yet we are in a situation whereby the promotions running are struggling to stay in business. That is what all Speedway teams need to be treated as, a business and that needs to be able to at the very least break even year on year. Currently the sport relies on a few fortunate individuals who are able to plough huge amounts of their own money into clubs to keep them afloat, i think everyone is aware that is not in any way a sustainable business model.

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