those were the days, something to smile about.

[fatface 2,549]

I went to a British Basketball League match today.... Plymouth Raiders v London Lions.

It's not my favourite sport, but it was a good afternoon's entertainment. What's really striking about it compared to speedway is that not a single minute is wasted. Even when it is time-outs or the end of quarters, there are dancers, the mascot is up to something, kids competitions, lights, music..it is a full show. In short, it's light years ahead of speedway. And surprise, surprise, it is packed with families and the sort of demographic everyone on this forum would love to see at the speedway.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...and again and again. Speedway's problem is not that it isn't what it used to be. IT'S THAT IT HASN'T CHANGED ENOUGH! 

[g13webb 4,254]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 11:11 AM, topsoil said:

I've never been able to understand this theory that everything was better in the old days. You can look back to a lot of results in the 70s and 80s and see absolute hammerings. Imagine how those type of results would be treated on this forum nowadays.

The "second halves", I can remember a lot of the time riders didn't fancy it and either went through the motions, or were replaced by local juniors because of bike problems. I bet the forum members would love that these days.

The good old days when riders were part timers, travelling about with the one bike on the back of a car. What if that bike got damaged in a crash or blew an engine? You either had to borrow another bike or withdrew from the meeting. You can imagine that going down well these days.

You look back at the race time back then, I will use my own club Berwick as an example. Race times in the 70s and 80s are roughly the same as a Northern Junior League race now. Can you imagine many fans nowadays putting up with that as a night's entertainment.

Yes it would be great if we could get back to a time where we had the top riders in the world competing in our leagues, but unless we can find some rich benefactors or miraculously find some big sponsorship or TV money, we have to accept this isn't going to happen.

Let's face it, we were all a lot more easily pleased in the past. There were fewer alternatives, we were less coddled in those days. Now we want instant gratification and we want it all the time.

For my opinion, speedway is better now than it ever has been, throughout the sport. More riders are becoming "professional", the standard of riders have gone up as a whole, right across the sport. But all I see on the forum is doom and gloom. I find I spend very little time looking at the forum these days, the general mood starts to bring me down. 

Interesting to read your take on the sport and yes,  I can relate with a  lot of what you say.   But the things you put importance in differs from my prospective greatly.  

Firstly the second halves were always received, not only by the fans but also the riders,  yes occasionally a rider might stand down but this was an exception and not the rule..    Remembering Peter Collins and Michael Lee battling out for 4 laps in a tremendous second half final , yet you make out it didn't matter....

The race time are significantly faster, but that doesn't  denote the racing is better.   When Terry Betts  won the first meeting at Lynn the track record was recorded at 72.8 sec.   the track record now is 57.4 sec   That 15 sec difference is all down to the machinery.  Once upon a time the skill of the rider was the governing factor. that how  now been equalled by the engine tuner...

As you say the riders have become more profession, just a pity the powers in charge  were not .     Recalling an incident in the early 70's  when Neil Street  introduce his first 4 valver,  Terry Betts remarked they should be banned because the sport could not afford such technology,   he said when the riders ask for extra cash it means the crowd will have to pay more,   As soon as that happens the number will go down.    

Reading your post, you identify the racing as the most important  factor of the sport, but to me the occasion is far more important.  I went to 10 or more World finals at Wembley and each were a wonderful advert to this sport. Always a full house made it a night to remember,  but as for the racing , the good heats could be counted on one hand.   For the sport to prosper  like it once did, it has to appeal to everybody, and for that to happen,  the occasion has to appeal to everybody...   not just the purest who only recognise the best racing.  

Probably if speedway was run along similar lines to Moto GP or Formula 1,   when the  Elite rode their best equipment  in World championship rounds,   leaving the leagues to run a more affordable option the sport would stand a better chance of surviving.     

 

[Grachan 7,314]

11 hours ago, falcace said:

I went to a British Basketball League match today.... Plymouth Raiders v London Lions.

It's not my favourite sport, but it was a good afternoon's entertainment. What's really striking about it compared to speedway is that not a single minute is wasted. Even when it is time-outs or the end of quarters, there are dancers, the mascot is up to something, kids competitions, lights, music..it is a full show. In short, it's light years ahead of speedway. And surprise, surprise, it is packed with families and the sort of demographic everyone on this forum would love to see at the speedway.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...and again and again. Speedway's problem is not that it isn't what it used to be. IT'S THAT IT HASN'T CHANGED ENOUGH! 

I went to the Basketball play-off final a few years back. It's a great show, but they do, of course, have the advantage of the indoor lighting/facilities and so on.

Interesting, also, that it attracts their biggest crowd of the season, but the play-off winners are not also league champions.

 

[fatface 2,549]

55 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I went to the Basketball play-off final a few years back. It's a great show, but they do, of course, have the advantage of the indoor lighting/facilities and so on.

Interesting, also, that it attracts their biggest crowd of the season, but the play-off winners are not also league champions.

 

I also know from insiders and people who work within the sport that the sport is a "cesspit" in its governance. So, very little different from speedway there. Despite that, basketball put on a good show for the fans. I take your point that they have an advantage of indoors, but it is still a world away from speedway in terms of like for like presentation at league meetings.

[Trees 2,814]

24 minutes ago, falcace said:

I also know from insiders and people who work within the sport that the sport is a "cesspit" in its governance. So, very little different from speedway there. Despite that, basketball put on a good show for the fans. I take your point that they have an advantage of indoors, but it is still a world away from speedway in terms of like for like presentation at league meetings.

Not outside featuring dangerous motorbikes on a dirt track ridden by adrenaline fuelled athletes on a week night is it?  That's not saying that speedway couldn't improve the presentation but just that it's not so easy .......

[fatface 2,549]

14 minutes ago, Trees said:

Not outside featuring dangerous motorbikes on a dirt track ridden by adrenaline fuelled athletes on a week night is it?  That's not saying that speedway couldn't improve the presentation but just that it's not so easy .......

...and we are back where we started. Doing anything well is not easy. The plodding on-same as last year-don't change too much-too much hard work attitude is why league speedway finds itself where it is. Scratching its head and scratching its bum. 

[Skidder1 7,631]

47 minutes ago, falcace said:

I also know from insiders and people who work within the sport that the sport is a "cesspit" in its governance. So, very little different from speedway there. Despite that, basketball put on a good show for the fans. I take your point that they have an advantage of indoors, but it is still a world away from speedway in terms of like for like presentation at league meetings.

How much extra funding does Basketball get from Sport England or the Lottery or whoever? 

I love it on TV (I used to play to a reasonable standard) but the major plus is that its indoors with no fears of rain-offs or variable surface conditions.  Its one of the reasons that Boxing, Darts and Snooker a la Hearn are so much easier to get right.

[Star Lady 5,400]

7 minutes ago, falcace said:

...and we are back where we started. Doing anything well is not easy. The plodding on-same as last year-don't change too much-too much hard work attitude is why league speedway finds itself where it is. Scratching its head and scratching its bum. 

And until more notice is taken of those that no longer attend than the happy clappers,the downward slope will continue.

[waytogo28 2,054]

On 3/17/2019 at 11:27 AM, Star Lady said:

as I recall the races were closer

Oh Star lady you do realise that it's not PC nowadays to recall such a thing about days gone by don't you? Oddly enough I remember it in a very similar way! Bikes of a more similar level of tuning and races thus more unpredictable ( and enjoyable ). Oh Dear now it's my turn to "break the rules". I must write out 100 times " As orl moiles beter nowadaze".

[jenga 2,998]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:45 PM, Bagpuss said:

The crowd levels have a lot to do with it too....if you watch an average meeting as one of a few hundred spectators you wouldn’t enjoy it anywhere near as much as being among five thousand fans watching it for example. Speedway back in the day seemed so much better due to the bigger crowds, better atmosphere and sense of occasion even though the racing itself was very similar. 

and the riders were part time and did not screw everyone around . ( apart when they blew an engine or crashed ) but the good fans chipped in and restored the balance .

[Trees 2,814]

6 hours ago, falcace said:

...and we are back where we started. Doing anything well is not easy. The plodding on-same as last year-don't change too much-too much hard work attitude is why league speedway finds itself where it is. Scratching its head and scratching its bum. 

Robin Brundle tried hard to add to the nights entertainment last year actually even if things didn't work out exactly as he would have liked. So did the Supporters Club.  Clubs are not standing still! 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Trees

[fatface 2,549]

23 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

Oh Star lady you do realise that it's not PC nowadays to recall such a thing about days gone by don't you? Oddly enough I remember it in a very similar way! Bikes of a more similar level of tuning and races thus more unpredictable ( and enjoyable ). Oh Dear now it's my turn to "break the rules". I must write out 100 times " As orl moiles beter nowadaze".

PC? I'm not sure where PC comes into it!? Think you have a default setting there that needs looking at...

I'm sure you do remember it to be better. In my own nostalgic mind, I remember the 80s to be better than today, although footage on YouTube is strong evidence that it was in fact no better than today's racing. In a way, you can argue speedway was better then,  because - relatively speaking - compared to other entertainment on offer then, speedway stacked up pretty well as live entertainment. Today in 2019, with a very similar product, it doesn't.

We have live sport and a much wider leisure options available on-line, at home or in person. Speedway operates in a tough environment competing for the wallet share of a public that has limited disposable income and unlimited options. If anyone thinks teleporting the speedway of yesteryear to today would suddenly bring the crowds flocking back, they are deluded.

[stevebrum 6,819]

23 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

Oh Star lady you do realise that it's not PC nowadays to recall such a thing about days gone by don't you? Oddly enough I remember it in a very similar way! Bikes of a more similar level of tuning and races thus more unpredictable ( and enjoyable ). Oh Dear now it's my turn to "break the rules". I must write out 100 times " As orl moiles beter nowadaze".

Blue tints worn if anyone remembers all the racing in days gone by as better and closer!

The only difference between now and then is that they raced in front of much healthier crowds. The top class riders still finished way ahead of the lesser lights. 

[Icicle 896]

Recently I "rediscovered" an old recording of a 70's World Final (Briggs Olsen etc). Big crowds, but  dreadful boring racing!! Lucky if more than 1 overtake the whole night....yes, felt better at the time, atmosphere & crowd plus youth reason, not the actual racing.

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

11 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Blue tints worn if anyone remembers all the racing in days gone by as better and closer!

The only difference between now and then is that they raced in front of much healthier crowds. The top class riders still finished way ahead of the lesser lights. 

Mauger did not finish ahead of Jim Tebby in one race.!!!!