False dawn 2,287 Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) Tai Woffinden? I'll get my coat [edit: whoops, old thread and I'm getting old. Repeating the same joke!] Edited December 22, 2019 by False dawn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted December 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Garry Middleton was a favourite of mine...never a dull moment when "Cassius" was around! Was his best days at Ackney or Oxford Steve ?? i did notice his head to record with Briggo was quite good 1969/72 but Crash Ashby seemed to get the better of him on a regular basis.We sometimes forget that as good as he still was Barry from 1970 he was not quite the force of old still a Total LEGEND in my eyes.Going back to Garry i can remember him wearing a flashy full face helmet a real character i still have his prized autograph. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted December 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Was his best days at Ackney or Oxford Steve ?? i did notice his head to record with Briggo was quite good 1969/72 but Crash Ashby seemed to get the better of him on a regular basis.We sometimes forget that as good as he still was Barry from 1970 he was not quite the force of old still a Total LEGEND in my eyes.Going back to Garry i can remember him wearing a flashy full face helmet a real character i still have his prized autograph. Hi Sid! Yes Garry's best year average wise was at Cowley but he had three good years as a "Hawk"...never remained at any one track for long! He had hoped to join Ipswich in 1972...can you imagine Garry and John Berry together? You're absolutley right in that Garry often had the beating of Briggo as a "Rebel" but Martin Ashby often had the better of him...much to my annoyance at the time! Recall his day-glo orange helmet and shark's teeth incorporarted in the design. How I envy you having his autograph! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 466 Posted December 23, 2019 I thought Peter Moore would be worth a mention!. From my limited experience (from 64-68)-I would have to put Charlie Monk top of my list -then John Boulger and Jim Airey-also Gordon Guasco, Peter Vandenberg, Jack Geran and Geoff Mudge. Overall though would have to say Jackie Biggs (still going strong until his death)!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 11, 2020 ...an just after the end of WW2 there was the brilliant but now seemingly forgotten Graham Warren to add to the list: http://www.speedwaymuseumonline.co.uk/grahamwarren.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
czechhero 32 Posted February 12, 2020 At Brum Herne, Askew, Lyons, Sweetman, Cheshire, Sanders None Brum Doyle, C. Holder, J Crump, P Crump Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,525 Posted February 12, 2020 Two questions... What's the general consensus on who was the better rider Phil Crump or Billy Sanders? And, what was the beef between them? The were clearly the top two Aussies for a long time, but were only paired once for the World Pairs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, falcace said: Two questions... What's the general consensus on who was the better rider Phil Crump or Billy Sanders? And, what was the beef between them? The were clearly the top two Aussies for a long time, but were only paired once for the World Pairs? Personally I think that Billy was better on the World stage and Phil at league level....just my opinion. I think that the rift first took hold during an Australian Final when the two clashed on track and Phil was excluded. However Phil was most upset when Billy took his own life and had regrets from an interview I recall. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,525 Posted February 13, 2020 16 hours ago, steve roberts said: Personally I think that Billy was better on the World stage and Phil at league level....just my opinion. I think that the rift first took hold during an Australian Final when the two clashed on track and Phil was excluded. However Phil was most upset when Billy took his own life and had regrets from an interview I recall. It's a pick em. I lean towards Crumpy purely on what I saw with my own two eyes on visits to Northern tracks. I know they clashed at the 83 Aussie Final, but that doesn't explain them being kept apart at every World Pairs in 78, 79, 80, 81 and 82. Guys like John Titman, Phil Herne and Gary Guglielmi were preferred. Yet, I don't think there would many that would dispute that Sanders and Crump were clearly the top two Aussies at that time. Seems odd. On paper at least, a Crump/Sanders pairing would have nicked a rostrum place or two and may even have won it in 83. Clearly, there's more to it than meets the eye. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,525 Posted February 13, 2020 Ps. Don't think he gets a mention. But I really enjoyed Rye House second stringer Trevor O'brien. Bit wild, but always had a go and gave absolutely 100% effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, falcace said: It's a pick em. I lean towards Crumpy purely on what I saw with my own two eyes on visits to Northern tracks. I know they clashed at the 83 Aussie Final, but that doesn't explain them being kept apart at every World Pairs in 78, 79, 80, 81 and 82. Guys like John Titman, Phil Herne and Gary Guglielmi were preferred. Yet, I don't think there would many that would dispute that Sanders and Crump were clearly the top two Aussies at that time. Seems odd. On paper at least, a Crump/Sanders pairing would have nicked a rostrum place or two and may even have won it in 83. Clearly, there's more to it than meets the eye. I seem to recall that James Easter (one-time Aussie Manager) commenting on the feud in an interview in "Backtrack"? If you don't subscribe to the magazine I would fully recommend it (that's a pint you owe me Tony Mac!) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,525 Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, steve roberts said: I seem to recall that James Easter (one-time Aussie Manager) commenting on the feud in an interview in "Backtrack"? If you don't subscribe to the magazine I would fully recommend it (that's a pint you owe me Tony Mac!) True. I should do that. Always enjoy it. Do I get a pint now too? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,314 Posted February 13, 2020 20 hours ago, steve roberts said: Personally I think that Billy was better on the World stage and Phil at league level....just my opinion. Exactly what I was thinking. Phil definitely under-performed on the World stage after 1976. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,018 Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Grachan said: Exactly what I was thinking. Phil definitely under-performed on the World stage after 1976. Uusually the opposite - struggle for a few years (a la Nielsen) and then step up a gear - but Crump did it in reverse. Had to be something mental with him, as it wasn't like he had "bad luck" like Jessup and others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,018 Posted February 13, 2020 5 hours ago, falcace said: Ps. Don't think he gets a mention. But I really enjoyed Rye House second stringer Trevor O'brien. Bit wild, but always had a go and gave absolutely 100% effort. I agree with that. Back in the 70's and 80's, there were quite a few Aussies who were impressive, but never really achieved full potential. Many of them are largely forgotten now. In addition to O'Brien, I liked Dave Jackson, Jim Burdfield, Stuart Mountford, Glen Baxter, Scott Norman, Lou Sansom, and Tony Langdon (he put in some brilliant performances against the Dons). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites