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Transponders and qualifying times introduced in GP’s in 2019

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Phil Morris says he tries to make tracks with a known gate bias as even as possible.   Is that by watering or ripping up the known bad gate ?

Doesn't this render the process of each rider picking a start number a waste of time.  That is assuming he does his job perfectly so all four gates are even.    It then down to dropping the clutch first to lead.

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21 minutes ago, Mark said:

Phil Morris says he tries to make tracks with a known gate bias as even as possible.   Is that by watering or ripping up the known bad gate ?

Doesn't this render the process of each rider picking a start number a waste of time.  That is assuming he does his job perfectly so all four gates are even.    It then down to dropping the clutch first to lead.

Only seen it done once and the process was to rip-open the track from all width of the track about 5 meters behind the tapes and about 20 in front. So it's not about working with that one bad gate, but to prepare them all the same way. Just read the interview from Spar myself and still cant believe why they are talking about the chance to pick your gates… Thats bollocks :D

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New regs on qualifying with transponders; another case of a simple sport made (unnecessarily) complicated.  Transponders; a good idea to time races accurately & spilt dead-heated riders, but individual laps times are really just for interest only.   Starting number and therefore gates picked at random still the best, fairest method IMO, I mean heat details are rcorded but does anyone record who arrived at turn1 in what position and then whether they were overtaken or not during a heat.....

Edited by martinmauger
(hopeful) clarification

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2 hours ago, martinmauger said:

New regs on qualifying with transponders; another case of a simple sport made (unnecessarily) complicated.  Transponders; a good idea to time races accurately & spilt dead-heated riders, but individual laps times are really just for interest only.   Starting number and therefore gates picked at random still the best, fairest method IMO, I mean heat details are rcorded but does anyone record who arrived at turn1 in what position and then whether they were overtaken or not during a heat.....

I dont, but I've seen some pretty interesting methods on keeping track on overtaking and gating... And I mean in writing, not any fancy iPad applications..

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4 minutes ago, f-s-p said:

I dont, but I've seen some pretty interesting methods on keeping track on overtaking and gating... And I mean in writing, not any fancy iPad applications..

Photographers normally have decent records of that sort of thingB):D

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1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Photographers normally have decent records of that sort of thingB):D

:D

Yes but I know a few people and chatted to few others from the UK, people that have been going to speedway for decades and are anoraks in one way or other regarding speedway. It's in a way fascinating what kind of systems they've built regarding how they fill their programs during meetings and all the info THEY can read from it afterwards...

Regarding ponders... I've never actually managed the Mylaps-system, just played with it a little and been to races where it's used. But say you really could start the clock by releasing the tapes, that would (sort of, not definite) give the time for the riders that they pass the wires for the first time. So in effect you could create a similar system to mx, where I understand the first guy to hit 1st bend gets a trophy... Over here they talk about making the "Holeshot"

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You didn’t bump into Lucifer Sam (on here) ? He uses 5 or 6 different colored pens to fill in his Programme to mark out various things !!!! :blink:

Edited by iris123

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8 hours ago, f-s-p said:

I dont, but I've seen some pretty interesting methods on keeping track on overtaking and gating... And I mean in writing, not any fancy iPad applications..

Some F1 fans and many drivers' wives / girlfriends used to do this, maybe they still do, record each car for every lap of a 70ish lap race covered....

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From the SGP regs for 2019

A transponder/decoder system will be the main timekeeping equipment and an auxiliary apparatus functioning automatically, synchronized with real-time and registering time to 1/100 second. A digital display panel, linked directly to the timekeeping system shall indicate: - the time registered by the rider as they cross the finish line. - the number of the rider. - the name of the rider. A monitor should supplement the display of the test classification.

An apparatus functioning automatically and placed on the starting line will take the exact time of the passage of the riders to the starting line. The green button on the referees control panel will be the official start of the timing system. the completion of the race will be automatically determined once the rider in first crosses the finish line. In the event of a “result review” images will be accessible to the referee. For such types of apparatus, the certificate must guarantee not only the accuracy but also the efficiency of the apparatus as a whole working under the conditions for which it is to be used. A transponder/decoder system may also be used at the time checks.

A timekeeper officiating at a FIM Speedway Grand Prix World Championship must have at his disposal a reserve chronometer in order to make up for any possible breakdown of the instruments normally being used. Riders must accept any type of Time keeping system approved by the FIM Speedway Grand Prix Commission, including transponders. During the machine examinations, the transponder will be given to the rider for the chronometric. The FIM Chief Technical Steward will refuse any machine that does not have a correctly-positioned positive transponder attachment. The transponder must be fixed to the motorcycles used for the free practice, qualifying and races in the position and orientation as shown in the timekeeping information given to riders. The correct attachment of the transponder bracket consists at the minimum, of plastic tiewraps, Velcro or adhesive alone will not be accepted. The transponder retaining clip must also be secured by a plastic tie-wrap. The rider is the sole person responsible for the above mentioned proceedings. The loss of the transponder during the event will result in a fine of 200 EUR to be taken out of the prize money. The rider is the sole person responsible for the transponder.

All the tests must be approved by the FIM Jury. A member of the FIM Jury will pay particular attention to the respect of the rules and to the efficient running of the test.

The starting line must be marked (white line on the ground, start gate etc.) The timing line (transponder loop) will be situated on the start line. The classification of riders in the races will be calculated on the basis of achieved times.

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Posted (edited)

I have just seen on the BBC F1 site that the driver with the Fastest Lap time during the race will receive an extra (Bonus Point), providing he finishes in the top 10.

Could Speedway eventually follow suit with a fastest Race win BP?

That could make the Qualifying/Practice times more crucial in choice of starting number.

Edited by Gambo

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1 hour ago, Gambo said:

I have just seen on the BBC F1 site that the driver with the Fastest Lap time during the race will receive an extra (Bonus Point), providing he finishes in the top 10.

Could Speedway eventually follow suit with a fastest Race win BP?

That could make the Qualifying/Practice times more crucial in choice of starting number.

BUT in speedway, unlike F1, track conditions can vary from lap to lap.

  • Confused 1

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41 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

BUT in speedway, unlike F1, track conditions can vary from lap to lap.

But F1 track conditions can also change, Phil.

today in Aussie, 20 cars start careering round very fast more rubber was laid on the track, therefore more grip, so they went faster.

also, track temperatures can rise or fall during qualifying, which affects “stickiness” for the better or worse.

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2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

But F1 track conditions can also change, Phil.

today in Aussie, 20 cars start careering round very fast more rubber was laid on the track, therefore more grip, so they went faster.

also, track temperatures can rise or fall during qualifying, which affects “stickiness” for the better or worse.

BUT does that mean the conditions were the same for all the cars?

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2 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

BUT does that mean the conditions were the same for all the cars?

It’s a fine line, but sometimes no they are not the same, timing of a run is ultra critical.

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14 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

But F1 track conditions can also change, Phil.

today in Aussie, 20 cars start careering round very fast more rubber was laid on the track, therefore more grip, so they went faster.

also, track temperatures can rise or fall during qualifying, which affects “stickiness” for the better or worse.

Yes, but all the cars in an F1 GP are on-track at the same time, so it's the same for everyone at any given moment. That's not the case with a Speedway GP.

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