BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, steve roberts said: As regards the forming of one league I can see the advantages to this but as I've stated elsewhere it would require the full co-operation of all participating promoters and as history has proven many times in the past this has sometimes proved difficult although 1965 did prove to be a turning point and saviour of the sport when the National and Provincial Leagues were merged. Agreed.. and that's why it's never going to happen or work. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted February 16, 2019 4 hours ago, BWitcher said: Agreed.. and that's why it's never going to happen or work. Unless .... in 2020 Buster owns 4 or 5 "top" clubs and in 2021 owns the 6, 7 or 8 of them that make up the then creme de la creme ( enough to satisfy BT which seems to be his Holy Grail ). How does he find backers for his acquisitions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,695 Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, waytogo28 said: Unless .... in 2020 Buster owns 4 or 5 "top" clubs and in 2021 owns the 6, 7 or 8 of them that make up the then creme de la creme ( enough to satisfy BT which seems to be his Holy Grail ). How does he find backers for his acquisitions? He may well only own 2 through 2019 and be back to only 1 for 2020 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted February 16, 2019 11 hours ago, steve roberts said: I can honestly say that I haven't a clue what you are going on about and why you think I've made such judgements and/or quotes on other threads regarding same. End of. judge' riders if it's not ba.textClipping Did averages ever come into your way of thinking Steve? i can't quite get my head around that part of the discussion.Hans for example from 1977 he was a good rider until he broke his hoodoo to win his first title then he was a outstanding rider did averages influence that decision i think not He was .the best of his generation mainly because of his longevity, also i felt in yesteryear a lot of the teams had three heat leaders Ex)( Belle Vue Collins,SjostenPusey. Ipswich Louis, Sanders,Davey Kings Lynn Betts, Lee, Turner, so that high standard of rider showed just how good some of the number one's were. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Did averages ever come into your way of thinking Steve? i can't quite get my head around that part of the discussion.Hans for example from 1977 he was a good rider until he broke his hoodoo to win his first title then he was a outstanding rider did averages influence that decision i think not He was .the best of his generation mainly because of his longevity, also i felt in yesteryear a lot of the teams had three heat leaders Ex)( Belle Vue Collins,SjostenPusey. Ipswich Louis, Sanders,Davey Kings Lynn Betts, Lee, Turner, so that high standard of rider showed just how good some of the number one's were. Averages are one factor Sid. If I can back pedal...we were fortunate at Oxford during the seventies with our promotional tie-ups with Eastbourne and Peterborough and we got to see both John Davis and Gordon Kennett start their senior league duties at Cowley. They were very different riders and it was obvious even at that early stage of their careers altough both eventually became genuine number ones (although John had to beat off some serious competion at Reading). John was more of a gater whereas Gordon often had to battle thru' from the back to register a win therefore I put him higher than John as regards the complete rider although their averages followed similar paths. I personally judge riders on all round ability and that's a very subjective and individual view and/or opinion. Edited February 16, 2019 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,939 Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) Just to correct.Gordon Kennett started out at Eastbourne and Wimbledon in 1970.He made second half appearances and also 5 league appearances for the Dons that year.Sadly he we let him get away until his return in the 80s It was great to see him in the last appearance of speedway bikes before the track closed for good Edited February 16, 2019 by iris123 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, iris123 said: Just to correct.Gordon Kennett started out at Eastbourne and Wimbledon in 1970.He made second half appearances and also 5 league appearances for the Dons that year.Sadly he we let him get away until his return in the 80s That's indeed true but Gordon moved up full-time with Oxford in 1973 having ridden in some matches towards the back of 1972 as did aforementioned John Davis (however I believe that he was initially on Poole's books?) so it was relelatively easy to compare their progress and differing abilities and/or styles whilst at Cowley. Edited February 16, 2019 by steve roberts 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HGould 2,213 Posted February 16, 2019 Have to agree, both great riders, Mavis was flash, brash, great gater ; Gordon was Mr Consistent, best white line passer I think of that era, so close to winning WC in 1978 and like Peter Collins couldn't gate, PC went round the boards and GK round the line. Hard to split them but would agree Steve GK was more complete rider for me. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,939 Posted February 16, 2019 Ok,I just misunderstood ‘start their senior league duties’.One of those that slipped through our fingers,but for me a big surprise to see him out there at the last speedway ‘night’ and the one rider who really rode the track.Went up in my estimation 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, iris123 said: Ok,I just misunderstood ‘start their senior league duties’.One of those that slipped through our fingers,but for me a big surprise to see him out there at the last speedway ‘night’ and the one rider who really rode the track.Went up in my estimation Gordon was/is one of my 'all-time' favourites...saw him race many times at Arlington also. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted February 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, HGould said: Have to agree, both great riders, Mavis was flash, brash, great gater ; Gordon was Mr Consistent, best white line passer I think of that era, so close to winning WC in 1978 and like Peter Collins couldn't gate, PC went round the boards and GK round the line. Hard to split them but would agree Steve GK was more complete rider for me. ...you've just reminded me of that great race at Hackney in 1977 when they both rode as you described and it ended as a dead-heat! Great stuff! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,939 Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, steve roberts said: Gordon was/is one of my 'all-time' favourites...saw him race many times at Arlington also. Saw him at White City where he really rose to the top and subsequently back st Eastbourne.But was surprised he rode that last time at Plough Lane as when I talked to Barney it sounded like Gordon wasn’t that interested in speedway any more.Think Barney said he had tried to get Gordon to watch a meeting without any luck. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Did averages ever come into your way of thinking Steve? i can't quite get my head around that part of the discussion.Hans for example from 1977 he was a good rider until he broke his hoodoo to win his first title then he was a outstanding rider did averages influence that decision i think not He was .the best of his generation mainly because of his longevity, also i felt in yesteryear a lot of the teams had three heat leaders Ex)( Belle Vue Collins,SjostenPusey. Ipswich Louis, Sanders,Davey Kings Lynn Betts, Lee, Turner, so that high standard of rider showed just how good some of the number one's were. "You felt a lot of the teams had three heat leaders". Really! Amazing! A seven man team ALWAYS has three heat leaders. Now you are claiming that Hans Nielsen's average had no impact in you deciding he was good? lmao. The average comes from winning most of your races. It's part and parcel. Had he not had a good average you would not have thought he was one of the worlds best. Period. You also thought many of the second and third heat leaders were amazing because they had high averages, due to the league format they were in. Every post you make confirms what I say, you just don't see it. The second and third heat leaders of that time were the akin of riders such as Kenneth Bjerre, Jack Holder, Jakub Jamrog, Rune Holta etc.I bet you don't rank those as highly do you? Yet they are the same level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted February 16, 2019 5 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: He may well only own 2 through 2019 and be back to only 1 for 2020 Did I miss something and Buster is intending to sell one of his clubs imminently ( or during the 2019 season)? And hopes for offers next close season on one of the remaining two? I am genuinely interested. Quite honestly I prefer it if he did own all of the "top" league clubs. It would present less uncertainty. that's for sure! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martinmauger 584 Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) Also in 1977, I still vividly remember when at the Boulevard Gordon Kennet passed the team-riding Bobby Beaton & Frank Auffret turning a Hull 5-1 into a 3-3. GK went around the outside of Frank and as Bobby looked ahead entering the 1st bend, he looked around in time to see Kennet slip inside as neatly as you like. Grr , blooming good bit of riding though. Then there is the WTC Qualy meet at Reading in 1979, it's on Youtube, when GK is battling the late Kelly Moran - and the mud - after both had lost their goggles. By 'lost their goggles' I don't mean out of tear offs; both had literally lost their racing goggles. Kelly was wearing a full-face helmet whereas Gordon wore an open face + monkey mask, which he had pulled down, so was copping the spray full in the face.... Edited February 16, 2019 by martinmauger added GK stuff 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
