Derwent Park..update on Town RL forum

[Carlislecomet2 304]

I may be naïve but I don't believe anyone is out to shaft anyone.

Allerdale need to be commended for their ambition and creativity in putting together a plan and a sensible looking funding package by utilising historically low interest rates, to replace 2 decrepit 'stadiums' which are not fit for purpose with a state of the art stadium which will raise the profile of the area and hopefully encourage further development. You never know (with SS's rose tinted glasses on) it maybe even encourage someone to come in to develop Northside at some stage, hopefully with some help from Allerdale who you would think would feel that they owe us a little something.

As regards what is presently happening at DP, it is really for the rugby club to decide as it is their stadium so I don't see the point of bleating about the shale and fence boards being removed. Harsh I know, but what do you expect them to do?

I just hope that the stadium plans go ahead and are not used as a political football and kicked into the long grass. The new facilities would give this part of West Cumbria a huge lift and benefit the community. It would then of course be up to the community to support it!

[SteelShoe 497]

2 hours ago, Derwent said:

Absolute rubbish. In fact, Town are owed a substantial five figure sum by the Comets promotion which it seems highly unlikely they will ever see. Despite the Comets success last year they appear to have left a trail of unpaid bills behind.

As for the issues around the pitch/track etc - Allerdale approached Town and offered this deal, were they supposed to say no ? Town's directors have a duty to their own club not to anyone else, and certainly not to a separate commercial enterprise that doesn't even exist anymore. Plus the fact that lazy journalism and local gossip has got Allerdale paying the bill for the work at DP, I can tell you with absolute certainty that approximately 70% of the cost is being covered by a grant that the Reds secured from the FA's football foundation trust. The Reds needed to do this even if the new ground doesn't materialise, current estimated cost of essential repairs to Borough Park is in excess of £150,000 and even then it'd be in the balance whether it was granted a safety certificate.

Which deal is Allerdale supposed to have offered ?

It was a separate commercial enterprise that put money into the Town coffers for many years !  The rent was only reduced because of the fine man Dave Bowden was.

Why would the Reds put £70k (based on the £100K reportedly quoted in the local press) into the work at DP when just this week they have said they won't be going anywhere until the Community Stadium situation is clarified. Today was the day talks were supposed to be held between Council/Reds.

A change of council in Penrith has resulted in a major project agreed by the previous administration being shelved; it could happen again although I hope it doesn't and £70K is half way to what Reds require for safety work.

Where would Reds have played if the Comets had of been running this season ? Would Town have evicted them ?

 

[SteelShoe 497]

2 hours ago, Carlislecomet2 said:

I may be naïve but I don't believe anyone is out to shaft anyone.

Allerdale need to be commended for their ambition and creativity in putting together a plan and a sensible looking funding package by utilising historically low interest rates, to replace 2 decrepit 'stadiums' which are not fit for purpose with a state of the art stadium which will raise the profile of the area and hopefully encourage further development. You never know (with SS's rose tinted glasses on) it maybe even encourage someone to come in to develop Northside at some stage, hopefully with some help from Allerdale who you would think would feel that they owe us a little something.

As regards what is presently happening at DP, it is really for the rugby club to decide as it is their stadium so I don't see the point of bleating about the shale and fence boards being removed. Harsh I know, but what do you expect them to do?

I just hope that the stadium plans go ahead and are not used as a political football and kicked into the long grass. The new facilities would give this part of West Cumbria a huge lift and benefit the community. It would then of course be up to the community to support it!

Agreed on Allerdale's ambition and i too want the stadium to go ahead.

I'm not bleating about the shale or the boards per se, its the bigger picture of track demolition including the attempted break up of the slag sub base. Surely for this to happen someone somewhere must have decreed that speedway will never again take place at Derwent Park. I'm appealing for some openness and honesty from an official source about what the bigger picture is and where the Comets now fit into that.

[TotallyHonestJohn 3,078]

4 hours ago, Carlislecomet2 said:

I may be naïve but I don't believe anyone is out to shaft anyone.

Honestly

Shafted is only a perception; a word that conveys the basic feelings most Comets fans feel with what has come to fruition throughout this whole sorry affair...

The machinations that have gone on beggar belief. The unfortunate situation the former owner found herself in losing her business. Then the manoeuvring done by the previous council for all the reasons put forward previously and the manoeuvring done by Town in the first instance then by the Reds all to the detriment of the Comets... not including the bull squat spouted by Town's management team...

Apart from the Comets going pop; to me the outgoing councillors hold the bulk of the blame with the two sporting clubs sharing what's left on the dismantling of DP... however all that Town and Reds have done to be fair is maximised there own positions due to the Speedway falling over and quite selfishly looked after their own interest to the detriment of the Comets... 

If either of those two went belly up I doubt if many Speedway fans would have lost any sleep (Well may be me old pal Singy) but if the shoe was on the other foot would we as Speedway fans feel any sympathy... possibly not...

However we all feel shafted over losing the sport we love and enjoy and for the ground where we went to watch our sport of choice having the heart and soul being ripped out of it which means there is no chance of it coming back to that venue... and as stated there has been a certain amount of Jiggery Pokery going on what you will never get to the bottom of...

I am now close to some of the newly elected Allerdale councillors and some of the story's I am hearing from them (if true) are shocking. However there is goodwill from many of these new council members and they would be open (I believe) to suppoting the sport at another venue if somewhere suitable could be found...

However it's Catch 22 as you need someone to sink money into the sport to get the whole process with the council rolling as it won't start rolling until a promoter can be found... and all the pitfalls of that scenario have been well discussed...

Sorry but I also feel that it's gone never to return...

Sad times...

Regards 

THJ 

[Lord Lucan 375]

7 hours ago, Derwent said:

Absolute rubbish. In fact, Town are owed a substantial five figure sum by the Comets promotion which it seems highly unlikely they will ever see. Despite the Comets success last year they appear to have left a trail of unpaid bills behind.

As for the issues around the pitch/track etc - Allerdale approached Town and offered this deal, were they supposed to say no ? Town's directors have a duty to their own club not to anyone else, and certainly not to a separate commercial enterprise that doesn't even exist anymore. Plus the fact that lazy journalism and local gossip has got Allerdale paying the bill for the work at DP, I can tell you with absolute certainty that approximately 70% of the cost is being covered by a grant that the Reds secured from the FA's football foundation trust. The Reds needed to do this even if the new ground doesn't materialise, current estimated cost of essential repairs to Borough Park is in excess of £150,000 and even then it'd be in the balance whether it was granted a safety certificate.

Thank you for the figures, it still doesn't excuse the fact that no one from Allerdale has ever entertained any possible proposals from alternative sources to continue running speedway at DP?

An offer to Laura Morgan wasn't taken up due to financial problems and there the matter ended, once speedway thru her was gone the bulldozers moved in and that was that?

As has been explained above the Reds are now very sceptical about this stadium ever being built and their contribution to the work on a pitch elsewhere could see them forced into paying rent to play on it, short spell or not, it was not what they signed up for?

Both want a new stadium but with talk's not producing very much at the moment as to whether anything will ever get the go ahead would that leave DP as the "shared venue" and Borough Park just levelled, use the funds to renovate one ground....is that going to be acceptable to the Reds and Town?

Whichever way it pan's out the Speedway was never an option on any front and that's what is wrong with all of this, we could have accommodated all three sport's if we'd really wanted to.... certain individuals just didn't and that's the saddest part of it? 

[SteelShoe 497]

10 hours ago, Lord Lucan said:

Thank you for the figures, it still doesn't excuse the fact that no one from Allerdale has ever entertained any possible proposals from alternative sources to continue running speedway at DP?

An offer to Laura Morgan wasn't taken up due to financial problems and there the matter ended, once speedway thru her was gone the bulldozers moved in and that was that?

As has been explained above the Reds are now very sceptical about this stadium ever being built and their contribution to the work on a pitch elsewhere could see them forced into paying rent to play on it, short spell or not, it was not what they signed up for?

Both want a new stadium but with talk's not producing very much at the moment as to whether anything will ever get the go ahead would that leave DP as the "shared venue" and Borough Park just levelled, use the funds to renovate one ground....is that going to be acceptable to the Reds and Town?

Whichever way it pan's out the Speedway was never an option on any front and that's what is wrong with all of this, we could have accommodated all three sport's if we'd really wanted to.... certain individuals just didn't and that's the saddest part of it? 

Right on the money Lord Lucan !!

[Derwent 271]

17 hours ago, Lord Lucan said:

Thank you for the figures, it still doesn't excuse the fact that no one from Allerdale has ever entertained any possible proposals from alternative sources to continue running speedway at DP?

An offer to Laura Morgan wasn't taken up due to financial problems and there the matter ended, once speedway thru her was gone the bulldozers moved in and that was that?

As has been explained above the Reds are now very sceptical about this stadium ever being built and their contribution to the work on a pitch elsewhere could see them forced into paying rent to play on it, short spell or not, it was not what they signed up for?

Both want a new stadium but with talk's not producing very much at the moment as to whether anything will ever get the go ahead would that leave DP as the "shared venue" and Borough Park just levelled, use the funds to renovate one ground....is that going to be acceptable to the Reds and Town?

Whichever way it pan's out the Speedway was never an option on any front and that's what is wrong with all of this, we could have accommodated all three sport's if we'd really wanted to.... certain individuals just didn't and that's the saddest part of it? 

I believe, and its only my hunch, that we will end up with a completely renovated Derwent Park instead of a new stadium. I think the council will then use the BP site to build the commercial offices etc for Sellafield and NHS as a stand alone business park.

[Derwent 271]

23 hours ago, SteelShoe said:

Where would Reds have played if the Comets had of been running this season ? Would Town have evicted them ?

 

Well here's the thing, Town wouldn't have needed to evict the Comets. You may not know but the Comets didn't actually have a formal lease for Derwent Park. They had a contract to rent it on an "as required" meeting by meeting basis subject to availability which is a completely different thing to a lease. They basically had no rights whatsoever regarding the stadium.

People who are having a go at Town need to realise that if it wasn't for their largesse then the Comets may not have completed their historic treble. Town let them use DP for the end of season meetings despite not having been paid for several weeks for the stadium's use. They could have just said sorry but you're not using it until we are paid up to date and there's not a thing Laura could have done about it.

[topaz325 1,853]

Mounting debt from 2018 and a very uncertain future at Derwent Park, Speedway was never going to happen in 2019.

 

The great success from 2018 may have been the catalyst or go a long way to the Comets downfall.

Edinburgh when they had great success very nearly signalled the end for them and it’s only through great financial help from business /fans that they survive, even the mighty Poole Pirates are suffering losses, ....success is not good in the long run.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by topaz325

[jenga 2,998]

1 hour ago, Derwent said:

Well here's the thing, Town wouldn't have needed to evict the Comets. You may not know but the Comets didn't actually have a formal lease for Derwent Park. They had a contract to rent it on an "as required" meeting by meeting basis subject to availability which is a completely different thing to a lease. They basically had no rights whatsoever regarding the stadium.

People who are having a go at Town need to realise that if it wasn't for their largesse then the Comets may not have completed their historic treble. Town let them use DP for the end of season meetings despite not having been paid for several weeks for the stadium's use. They could have just said sorry but you're not using it until we are paid up to date and there's not a thing Laura could have done about it.

sure i mentioned this a while back on this thread . its called a licence , where both parties can pull the plug at any given time 

if the comets were on a lease , the council or the rugby club would have to buy the lease from laura .think its called a sub lease , but then again , town dont own the ground , the council do 

not having a legal lease has made it so easy for the rugby club and the council  to pull the plug on the speedway .

[Derwent 271]

5 minutes ago, jenga said:

sure i mentioned this a while back on this thread . its called a licence , where both parties can pull the plug at any given time 

if the comets were on a lease , the council or the rugby club would have to buy the lease from laura .think its called a sub lease , but then again , town dont own the ground , the council do 

not having a legal lease has made it so easy for the rugby club and the council  to pull the plug on the speedway .

Not quite true, Town do own the stadium. The council own the land it stands on, for which Town have a 199 year lease which began in 1946. Its a bit like owning a house on leasehold rather than freehold. But Town do own the actual stadium and it appears as an asset on their balance sheet. It was funded partly by the Mitchell and Graves families and also a loan from the RFL.

[cityrebel 2,960]

4 hours ago, Derwent said:

I believe, and its only my hunch, that we will end up with a completely renovated Derwent Park instead of a new stadium. I think the council will then use the BP site to build the commercial offices etc for Sellafield and NHS as a stand alone business park.

It makes sense.

[jenga 2,998]

thats one big fire lighter you are adding to the fire there Derwent !

[SteelShoe 497]

5 hours ago, Derwent said:

I believe, and its only my hunch, that we will end up with a completely renovated Derwent Park instead of a new stadium. I think the council will then use the BP site to build the commercial offices etc for Sellafield and NHS as a stand alone business park.

Not a bad hunch seen as the new executive may well not proceed with the Community Stadium. In the event of this happening would you be pleased to see the track vandalism put right and returned to fit for purpose ?

[SteelShoe 497]

3 hours ago, Derwent said:

Not quite true, Town do own the stadium. The council own the land it stands on, for which Town have a 199 year lease which began in 1946. Its a bit like owning a house on leasehold rather than freehold. But Town do own the actual stadium and it appears as an asset on their balance sheet. It was funded partly by the Mitchell and Graves families and also a loan from the RFL.

The Council hold the Freehold for both sites and lease DP to Town under two separate leases dated 15th October 1956 and 7th April 1961, these are co-terminus and expire on July 2nd 2154.