DBP 64 Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, waytogo28 said: So if they owe hundreds of thousands of pounds, who is the financial backer and how large are they likely to permit the debts to total before cutting off the finance needed to operate? I am not having a go at how BV or the NSS operate but it sounds dangerously unstable. Are they banking on a UK speedway revival? I just can't see that happening. The belle vue management are business men with a series of well publicised company failures which sustained multi million pound debt. Google robin southwell I believe this is the third season of a three season business plan and it will be interesting what happens at the end of this season, it would not surprise me if belle vue were looking for new owners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W9 Lion 219 Posted May 15, 2019 On 5/12/2019 at 8:41 AM, PHILIPRISING said: ALONG with a few others! How hard is it to sit still..... Based on 9 years of being a Start Marshal and trying to do what the rules say almost impossible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W9 Lion 219 Posted May 15, 2019 On 5/12/2019 at 11:39 AM, mikebv said: All meetings should just adopt the Polish system.. that's why the start marshal does not move away until the Green light comes on to bring the UK into line with Pl and Swe On the Polish thread it was said all front wheels have to be 10cm away from the tapes.. its 75mm in the UK, so actually closer And watching the racing out there, it is very strictly policed by the start marshall and ref.. when you try and enforce the rules you get called picky by the riders and fussy by the fans -I'm just trying to do the job as outlined in the rule book No room for rollers, or 'twitching' as the tapes will be touched... but once you drop your arms and walk away see how many riders straighten their legs, move 10cm back and start to roll into the tapes Very rarely see a restart for tapes issues in Poland.. that's because the riders get fined by PZM and also the club (the latter dependant on individual contract) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,163 Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 75mm? Looks more like 75cm sometimes.. The big difference to me looks like the support the Marshall gets from the ref. As he walks away the ref alerts him via the headphones they wear to go back should any rider pull away.. They then go back and make the rider toe the line. Maybe that would help you in your duty? Mind you, looking at some of the ridiculous,starts allowed by some refs I am amazed some of them would even be able to see you down at the start gate. Edited May 15, 2019 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W9 Lion 219 Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, mikebv said: 75mm? Looks more like 75cm sometimes..It can be dependant on the start marshal or the rider. (no names mentioned) You are also meant to call in the riders in gate order A-D (A being Gate One) and not move onto the next rider until happy with the first. The big difference to me looks like the support the Marshall gets from the ref. I'm unable to comment on that having not done meetings in Pl or Swe. I have done FIM meetings and been very well supported by the Polish Refs. As he walks away the ref alerts him via the headphones they wear to go back should any rider pull away. I would be more than happy, I have a headset so the ref can speak to me whenever he wants They then go back and make the rider toe the line. More than happy to do that Maybe that would help you in your duty? Yep, it would. Remember a couple of years ago the brought in the second line at the tapes? The spindle of the front wheel had to be directly above it (and in doing so the leading edge of the tyre was 75mm off the tapes) and it made everyone's life easier but then it was withdrawn for the following season Mind you, looking at some of the ridiculous,starts allowed by some refs I am amazed some of them would even be,able to see you down at the start gate.. You can usually tell if a rider has jumped before the other three even with our back to them as you can feel the reduced airflow through the exhaust (as they drop the clutch and the revs drop) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,163 Posted May 15, 2019 Looks like British Speedway do have some very clear, sensible rules around starting a race.. However, like so many of their clear, sensible rules, they do seem to be paid little more than lip service at times.. it does appear that the same riders seem to know that over here there is a greater tolerance towards their bending of the rules, even though the rules look more stringent! Anyhow. Keep up the efforts W9 Lion, you never know, one day it might all come together and each heat will become one seamless transition from one to the next, as seems to happen in Poland.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPEEDY69 1,238 Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, W9 Lion said: Very rarely see a restart for tapes issues in Poland.. that's because the riders get fined by PZM and also the club (the latter dependant on individual contract) I think that's the key issue - nothing focuses a riders attention better than money! It'd be great to have that over here, or even doc them a point (for income only) for an infringement - effectively reducing their income and relating the fine relative to their contract. Edited May 15, 2019 by SPEEDY69 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted May 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: I think that's the key issue - nothing focuses a riders attention better than money! It'd be great to have that over here, or even doc them a point (for income only) for an infringement - effectively reducing their income and relating the fine relative to their contract. Certain punishments are now imposed in monetary terms under the SCB Rule Book, see Art 15.3 and Appendix A. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPEEDY69 1,238 Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, NeilWatson said: Certain punishments are now imposed in monetary terms under the SCB Rule Book, see Art 15.3 and Appendix A. I could only see this within the 2019 SCB regualtions: 15.3. A Starting Offence is considered to have been committed in the following circumstances: - Gate Preparation after the expiry of the 2-minute allowance. When a rider’s motorcycle or any part of their body or equipment touches or breaks the starting tapes whilst the green starting light is on or prevents the raising of the start gate. And fails to comply with: - Art 15.2.2 Returning into the pits Art 15.2.4 Failure to meet the 2 minute time allowance Art 15.2.8 Not obeying the Start Marshal’s instructions A second offence, following an official warning during the meeting for incorrectly preparing the start gate area, disobeying the start marshal and moving during the illumination of the green light before the tapes are released shall result in disqualification (ie; second warning) There was nothing referring to a financial penalty other than the general rule that a referee can impose a penalty if they want to, not as a matter of course. Edited May 15, 2019 by SPEEDY69 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted May 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: I could only see this within the 2019 SCB regualtions: 15.3. A Starting Offence is considered to have been committed in the following circumstances: - Gate Preparation after the expiry of the 2-minute allowance. When a rider’s motorcycle or any part of their body or equipment touches or breaks the starting tapes whilst the green starting light is on or prevents the raising of the start gate. And fails to comply with: - Art 15.2.2 Returning into the pits Art 15.2.4 Failure to meet the 2 minute time allowance Art 15.2.8 Not obeying the Start Marshal’s instructions A second offence, following an official warning during the meeting for incorrectly preparing the start gate area, disobeying the start marshal and moving during the illumination of the green light before the tapes are released shall result in disqualification (ie; second warning) There was nothing referring to a financial penalty other than the general rule that a referee can impose a penalty if they want to, not as a matter of course. In my copy it’s the very next section after the one you quote! (The final paragraph on Page 38) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPEEDY69 1,238 Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, NeilWatson said: In my copy it’s the very next section after the one you quote! (The final paragraph on Page 38) I think you would know more than me on this so could be wrong but that says the penalties are only for riding across the infield????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speedtiger 327 Posted May 15, 2019 4 hours ago, DBP said: The belle vue management are business men with a series of well publicised company failures which sustained multi million pound debt. Google robin southwell I believe this is the third season of a three season business plan and it will be interesting what happens at the end of this season, it would not surprise me if belle vue were looking for new owners. Blimey, just Googled Robin Southwell...wow there’s lots of very interesting stuff on him and about a company called Corporate Jet Service and also some of his well dodgy associates who are all now in clink for 47 years for the HBOS fraud. Seems the Bank lost £113m and Manx Government a fortune. Well with a checkered business record like that how long before BV goes bust? You have to ask why did the Council get involved with him (they must have checked up) and him with speedway? Surely they must have to pass a BSPA fit and proper person assessment before being involved in speedway or am I being a little naive? This isn’t really for the Craig Cook thread so I’ll move this to Belle Vue thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted May 15, 2019 37 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: I think you would know more than me on this so could be wrong but that says the penalties are only for riding across the infield????? I haven’t studied the Regulations closely this season (no need!) but IIRC the fine for crossing the infield was in substitution for the exclusions that caused so much adverse comment. Historically a referee fine was deducted from the riders wages, but when exchange money was done away with they became fines from the SCB akin to a parking ticket, and were loosely based on a number of points scored and the assumed pay rate for the rider and league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) On 5/15/2019 at 8:42 PM, Speedtiger said: Surely they must have to pass a BSPA fit and proper person assessment before being involved in speedway or am I being a little naive? I am sure that this is a far from difficult test to pass ( that is the impression gained over many years of reading about the way many promoters have operated their speedway business ). Very likely - being able to breathe and showing blood when pricked with a pin. Possibly, in addition, looking good in a blazer might come into account. As for Cookie - it seems that very likely he has not chosen his "battles" ( nor the reason for them ) well. Edited May 18, 2019 by waytogo28 additional point made, grammar & spelling too ( sadly) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ray c 2,299 Posted May 17, 2019 Like to see craig at poole but unfortunately cant see that happening a few years he wanted to come i believe that never happened Share this post Link to post Share on other sites