Jump to content
British Speedway Forum
Sign in to follow this  
racers and royals

Tai Woffinden at his majestic best Sunday April 14th

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

Don't get me wrong 1 valve, Tai is good but he hasn't got anyone to beat. So much easier now, just turn up, win, ride round, don't have to win many races, pressure? No, closed shop, rivals not around.

In the 70's did you see a rider lose a race before a World Final? So tough the competition, Betts. Look at it, Ashby. Legends. Pusey, warrior. Would he lose a race today, don't think so. Grand Prix, back in the day, wow, Mauger would have won 20+, Olsen too, Collins 10... could you see them losing a race, wow, competition, Les Collins, grand prix, would he get beat, be honest? Carter, be world champ 5 times over in a GP, tough, Sanders! Different class. Joe Owen, different level, 

Think 1 valve. Were you there?

Yes I was. Saw every world final from 1975 live. Yes including trips to Poland when Ivan won his 6th title. 

Today Poland has replaced UK as the home of the most competitive speedway. And different rules apply as well as formats tracks & equipment  

Do I think Woffy would have been as good as Ole or Ivan. Briggs or Ove? Back then? Frankly I don’t know. Similarly I don’t know how they would have coped with today’s competition. But I am pretty sure Tai would have given them a real run for their money because he actually is “that good” and do too are a number of today’s riders. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, 1 valve said:

But I am pretty sure Tai would have given them a real run for their money because he actually is “that good” and do too are a number of today’s riders. 

Really? I read on here that he wouldn't have been good enough to even get in the 1972 Belle Vue team...

Steve

Edited by chunky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no doubt Tai is very good, how good is difficult to determine.  Why?  For one, the money is so good in top class speedway today there is no real need to push yourself in every race. With 3 meetings a week todays racers will have ample opportunity to earn good money - though the professionalism is higher then it ever has been I think. With regard to world championship meetings, pre the gp system every world champ qualifier was tough and just one engine failure could mean you out for a year. With the gp's, though its never good to have a bad meeting, its not the end of the world either. So in some respect it could be said its easier to be a world champ today then say 30+  years ago, though I doubt the riders think so.

The meeting that started this thread off, and particularly that race 7 with Tai v Nicki (I not watched the others)..... nothing special to me,  just Tai hunting down Nicki, winding it up on the outside and eventually passing on the run to the flag.  Notice Tai never really put himself close to Nicki, which was clever of him cause you never know what Nicki is going to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

There is no doubt Tai is very good, how good is difficult to determine.  Why?  For one, the money is so good in top class speedway today there is no real need to push yourself in every race. With 3 meetings a week todays racers will have ample opportunity to earn good money - though the professionalism is higher then it ever has been I think. With regard to world championship meetings, pre the gp system every world champ qualifier was tough and just one engine failure could mean you out for a year. With the gp's, though its never good to have a bad meeting, its not the end of the world either. So in some respect it could be said its easier to be a world champ today then say 30+  years ago, though I doubt the riders think so.

The meeting that started this thread off, and particularly that race 7 with Tai v Nicki (I not watched the others)..... nothing special to me,  just Tai hunting down Nicki, winding it up on the outside and eventually passing on the run to the flag.  Notice Tai never really put himself close to Nicki, which was clever of him cause you never know what Nicki is going to do.

No need for the parody anymore folks!

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

So in some respect it could be said its easier to be a world champ today then say 30+  years ago, though I doubt the riders think so.

EVERY rider in the GP is riding under the same rules and conditions, so in that respect, it is no easier and no more difficult. It is the same for everyone.

It was a lot easier to become World Champion on the old days, and was actually easier for some than for others. Back in the day, depending on what nationality you were, you could become World Champion from just three or four meetings. As I mentioned a while back, how many meetings did Muller ride in 83? Or Szczakiel ten years earlier? Olsen was actually in a similar situation at least once, and in only two of those meetings (I-C Final and World Final) was he facing any real competition.

Today, each rider has to face the majority of the world's best riders EVERY TIME! One good/lucky meeting just ain't gonna cut it...

So, looking at it like that, it is a lot tougher to become World Champion today...

Steve

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Byker Biker said:

So pleased you're a Woffy fan, he'd be fckued without you!

Eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chunky said:

EVERY rider in the GP is riding under the same rules and conditions, so in that respect, it is no easier and no more difficult. It is the same for everyone.

It was a lot easier to become World Champion on the old days, and was actually easier for some than for others. Back in the day, depending on what nationality you were, you could become World Champion from just three or four meetings. As I mentioned a while back, how many meetings did Muller ride in 83? Or Szczakiel ten years earlier? Olsen was actually in a similar situation at least once, and in only two of those meetings (I-C Final and World Final) was he facing any real competition.

Today, each rider has to face the majority of the world's best riders EVERY TIME! One good/lucky meeting just ain't gonna cut it...

So, looking at it like that, it is a lot tougher to become World Champion today...

Steve

The world championship today is a closed shop and only so many riders can take part in it Possibly about 40. Going back to the early 1950's it was open to all riders which is not the case today.I remember one year there was 243 entries and that was in the UK alone. Under today's system a rider like Jack Young who was a 2nd division rider  became world champion  and under today's system would not be allowed entry

It.s a shame that the GP riders today are being paid a pittance for the skills and any profits earnt from the GP's does not come back to the grass roots of Speedway. I wonder who sold Speedway down the drain

Edited by mickthemuppet
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, mickthemuppet said:

The world championship today is a closed shop and only so many riders can take part in it Possibly about 40. Going back to the early 1950's it was open to all fiders which is not the case today.I remember one year there was 243 entries and that was in the UK alone. Under today's system a rider like Jack Young who was a 2nd division rider  became world champion  as he would not be allowed entry

Looking @ different times & scenarios, but what I can tell you is that the person who I (& many others) considered the most knowledgeable & intelligent person in speedway rated Jack Young as the greatest rider ever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CountyGround said:

Looking @ different times & scenarios, but what I can tell you is that the person who I (& many others) considered the most knowledgeable & intelligent person in speedway rated Jack Young as the greatest rider ever. 

That's nice for him, what qualifies him as the most 'knowledgeable and intelligent' person in speedway out of interest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BWitcher said:

No need for the parody anymore folks!

You have been obviously too convincing....:)

Meaning some must agree....:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, chunky said:

He needs to win at least 10 more World Championships to break into the top 50. Still, it is so easy to win the GP series - but only for Woffinden, and not everybody else...

:)

As you say...

It must have been so much more difficult to win World Titles in the Seventies and Eighties with around a third of the field from a much less progressive and heavily restricted, Eastern Europe....

Many of whom nicely helping fill the bottom five finishing positions..

ONE of them actually won the thing ONCE showing how good they were...!;)

Getting to the Final was probably harder than winning it for many of the riders...

Nowadays the best riders in the world ride against each other in every round, and any rider just outside the top echelon gets their opportunity to join in via the very high standard GP Challenge. (If they are good enough)..

Winning any season long sporting competition, regardless of what sport, means you are 'the best' out there..

To do it regularly, in any era, means you are one of the 'very best' of all time....

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mickthemuppet said:

The world championship today is a closed shop and only so many riders can take part in it Possibly about 40. Going back to the early 1950's it was open to all riders which is not the case today.I remember one year there was 243 entries and that was in the UK alone. Under today's system a rider like Jack Young who was a 2nd division rider  became world champion  and under today's system would not be allowed entry

It.s a shame that the GP riders today are being paid a pittance for the skills and any profits earnt from the GP's does not come back to the grass roots of Speedway. I wonder who sold Speedway down the drain

I don't understand your reasoning. Under todays system Jack Young might well have been nominated if he done well in the Aussie Championships or whatever the Australian federation consider for the qualifiers.It has nothing to do with which league he rides in

I do agree a rider who has a great season would have to wait for the next year if he wasn't already in. But I don't think the strength of the old was that any rider, no matter what level had a chance to enter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mickthemuppet said:

The world championship today is a closed shop and only so many riders can take part in it Possibly about 40. Going back to the early 1950's it was open to all riders which is not the case today.I remember one year there was 243 entries and that was in the UK alone. Under today's system a rider like Jack Young who was a 2nd division rider  became world champion  and under today's system would not be allowed entry

It.s a shame that the GP riders today are being paid a pittance for the skills and any profits earnt from the GP's does not come back to the grass roots of Speedway. I wonder who sold Speedway down the drain

Jack Young was top qualifier in 1950 (i.e one year before he was World Champion), which suggests he would have won the 1950 Grand Prix challenge and therefore qualified for the 1951 Grand Prix series.

PS Just checked there are currently 64 riders in the international stages of qualifying.  And many countries use the results of national championships, etc, to determine who goes into the qualifiers.  It's not a closed shop.  If you're good enough, you get into it pretty quickly, as Emil did at the age of 19.

Edited by lucifer sam
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not only that, but he finished 8th in the world final. If he finished 8th in a GP series he would automatically be in the next season. All this talk of Jack Young is bunkum!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other point around this era is that Graham Warren was the dominant force in 1950, but fell in one race at Wembley while chasing Freddie Williams. He won his other four outings to finish in third place on 12 points.

Given a GP series, the favourite to win would have been Warren.

The old style World Championship and current GP series were/are BOTH very tough to win.  But, under the GP system, the top rider in the world is more likely to end up as the World Champion. Although the cream normally rose to the top in World Finals as well.

Both systems have their merits.  I miss the trips to the old one-off finals, but at the same time, I appreciate being able to see a number of Grand Prix rounds on the TV throughout the year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Privacy Policy