Brummies v Eagles 1.5.19

[Fromafar 10,333]

56 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

Isnt ht 8 a "protected" race thought changes arnt allowed 

Correct

[Fromafar 10,333]

4 hours ago, HGould said:

I don't think any brummies rider last night can be accused of lack of effort, certainly not Shanes or Zac. If riders aren't good enough by all means accept they are not good enough, but no lack of effort.

As for Laurence, he can only use the cards he is dealt.

The track was slick but we now have a top track man working on it who has done wonders at Stoke. Must have been tough as they expected rain, it looked like rain all around at several points but it never came so they had to water quite a lot.

Agree about the marketing re Kids, should have been done a week ago not a few hours before, almost smacks of desperation. 

With Lee now full time promoter at Swindon may be we need to bring in someone on the commercial side a bit more focused on Brummies and not elsewhere.

I would explain I would have been better saying "tricky" re Workington as opposed to "trick" - a track I have been to several times but always viewed as a "homer"...I agree PB is too fair to all.

Don't know what choices the Masons have financially, there are a few who could improve the team but can't think of an out and out No 1 you could go and sign as any available - likes of Ellis; Wilson - Dean ; Campton , Aarnio; Pavalora - are in case of first 2 may be 2nd/3rd heat leader strength and in case of last 3 no better than decent 2nd strings and we have a side full of them already.   

 

 

 

Jimmy Beaton the former Glasgow Promoter always said that weather forecast should not interfere with track prep,if the weather intervenes that’s bad luck.

[GiveusaB 1,130]

16 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Correct

A reserve can replace the No.2 rider

[ProudtobeaBrummie 646]

I have just had a read through the Brummies forum for the first time in months and there is hardly any posts on there certainly nothing that could be regarded as rocking the boat .

Although it looks like  Mr rogers has a been trying to sell a single  bonus ball card for months and cant fill it . Some people seem to be getting hacked off with that thread as it does appear to be getting rather farical. He keeps putting who would of won if the card had been completed hahahaha .

I have not posted on there for about 7 months . I agreed with a poster that we should of done a reserve switch in a certain heat then i was attacked by the " red and yellow tinted glasses brigade " telling me i was not a true Brummies fan like they were . I found the reaction most odd so have never posted since. 

So i can completely see what you are saying Hobbit . However balanced or well put you point is the response will not not be . So the whole interaction on that forum is pointless. It is not really a forum is it because your not allowed to have a different view other than blowing smoke up everyone's arse .

Cue Brian buck and Guitar art responding shortly towing the club/management line.

Edited May 2, 2019 by ProudtobeaBrummie

[stevebrum 6,820]

3 hours ago, geoff100 said:

Isnt ht 8 a "protected" race thought changes arnt allowed 

I didn’t think it was anymore?

[crescent girl 1,904]

43 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

I didn’t think it was anymore?

No tactical subs in Heat 8.  Deffo. 

[guitar_art 247]

8 hours ago, the hobbit said:

To my mind, Zach is a major disappointment. He quite clearly looks for the safest place on the track where he is in no danger of contact with any rider or any situation which may need him to mix it with an opponent. Yes he’s scoring his average but, he’s staying safe, not taking any risks and several times last night, you  could clearly see him close the throttle off or deliberately change line to stay safe rather than to race. The clearest case was against Kennett when he  gated level but then, turned sharp right going into the first bend and rode the fence to avoid having to compete with his opponent. We all saw that no one rode the outside all night as there was no dirt, no grip and  no point doing so 

Zach is flattering to deceive. To me he hasn’t had a half decent meeting so far but, is settling for safe second and third places in most races. He makes one decent gate a meeting for a race win which helps his average. I wouldn’t shed any tear if we dropped him

 

this is without doubt one of the worst ever Brummies teams I have seen and I’ve been watching since the late 1970’s   It won’t win a meeting all season, home or away.  

 

Ulrich  continues his downward spiral and is at best, a third heat leader. Unfortunately, we don’t have any other heat leaders, the rest being second string or reserve quality at best. 

 

Newman is a major disappointment and doesn’t Look like his heart is in it at all 

 

every rider seems capable of one good ride a meeting then several poor ones 

 

god forbid, we even managed to make Kennel look good last night. 

 

Our gating is appalling 

 

The meeting was over by heat five and we only looked better in the later part of the meeting as Eastbourne relaxed and eased off. 

 

Its May 2nd. We are out of both cups already and can have no  hope whatsoever in the League. Season over already 

i undrerstand why the team was  constructed this way, to be able to afford to survive financially BUT....   

the team is so weak that only the die yards like myself will watch it: 

people will not come to watch this dross every week  attendances are woeful and will only get worse  I, as a diehard , am struggling to find the motivation to go every week despite being a season ticket holder 

I had booked the time off work to go to every away meeting but, will not be going away, to watch this team as I work way to hard to earn my money, to waste it on a completely uncompetitive team such as this 

i don’t think the owners are prepared to spend the money needed to sort this out and sadly, I  an see us folding mid season 

things aren’t helped you having such a tactically inept team manager  with both the meeting and, the tie long dead, he takes Tobias out of heat eight , his easiest ride,  when he needs all the track time he can get then, he uses Kyle who is struggling badly as his tactical rider when surely it should have been Ully. Rogers is speedways answer to boris Johnson  he’s a clown 

last season was ruined by not making the glaringly obvious changes and I have no doubt the same will happen here

 to have to keep reading official club reports that we are only a few  points from winning a meeting and that there were many positives from our performances, is quite frankly an insult to our intelligence 

 

this team is garbage and with it, we are doomed to closure 

 

 

I would like to take some time to look at one or two points made in this post that I think are incorrect. Firstly I disagree with the assesment of Zach but I guess thats just a difference of opinion.

"We all saw that no one rode the outside all night as there was no dirt, no grip and  no point doing so "

To the contrary Kennett spent much of his time after his first two heats riding right round the outside. As for there being no dirt on the track. Whilst I would be the first to agree that the track has been slick so far this season, last nights track had the most dirt on it that I have seen for a long time. I have first hand knowledge of this because I had a rake in hand pulling it of the fence all night. Also James Shanes pulled of a couple of outside passes during the night so there was definatley a point in trying. As mentioned in the program there is a rarity of shale available at the moment and I know we are trying to source some.

 

"The meeting was over by heat five and we only looked better in the later part of the meeting as Eastbourne relaxed and eased off. "

The heat times dont support this hypothesis and niether did the racing.

I had more to say but then I took a look at the Brummies forum to find that someone had said it better and more succinct than I can. So I am going to repeat that post here (hoping the person in question does not mind.) I will say this though. I understand the frustration. I share it. I understand the worry and share it. I hate seeing my beloved Brummies lose. And after the first 7 heats last night I was ready to dig a hole and jump down it. However the next 8 heats were far far better and I was impressed that we didnt just throw in the towel and showed a lot of courage on what would have been a very difficult night for them. They didnt throw in the towel so Im not going to.

The post I was reffering to follows.

 

So its nearly 24 hours on and perhaps the dust is starting to settle (quite literally) on last nights performance.

Lets start with a reality check - at the end of last season there were few if any who wished to remain in the third tier of racing. Because of what happened in the Phillips era we all knew we were a club with no riding assets so our journey in putting together a team was going to be a long one and because we had the 'chicken & egg' situation of needing assets before we met the Championship entry requirements but couldn't really sign assets until we were 'in' it must have been a pretty thankless task. When you compare that to last nights opponents Eastbourne who because of the demise of Lakeside and the switch of the promotion they had a ready made list of quality experienced assets who they are now able to use.

Now the 7 we have started with may not be the best in the league but they have been put together on a budget that hopefully ensures we last the season - something I am not convinced all other clubs will achieve. Watching the last three home matches, and the last two against fellow Championship clubs in particular, each of our riders have shown, albeit in glimpses, that they have the ability to win races around Perry Barr. Just look at last night, 5 of our 7 were paid for winning races and of the two that didn't one was Paco who as probably been the brightest spark of the season so far. I really don't think the effort they are putting in can be questioned (look at Tobias 2nd ride last night when he pushed all of the way for no reward) but its not their fault if at the moment on a regular basis they are not as good as the riders they are being asked to race against. One thing they do all need to work on though is their gating which is absolutely dreadful and if they cant get that right then perhaps we need to 'fix' the track accordingly!

I sincerely hope we don't make wholesale changes and we persevere with what we've got now - I'm not convinced the crowds will drop considerably just because we aren't winning (if we are honest could they get much poorer than last night?) but the sense of achievement when this team does win (and despite what others think I do believe we will break our duck) will be fantastic for all who witness it.

I don't want us to become Poole - a side that switches and drops riders at the drop of a hat to fit the averages - but I do want to see our team of racers given a chance.

[Speedway fan 205]

No tac subs but reserve subs allowed

[HGould 2,213]

6 minutes ago, guitar_art said:

I would like to take some time to look at one or two points made in this post that I think are incorrect. Firstly I disagree with the assesment of Zach but I guess thats just a difference of opinion.

"We all saw that no one rode the outside all night as there was no dirt, no grip and  no point doing so "

To the contrary Kennett spent much of his time after his first two heats riding right round the outside. As for there being no dirt on the track. Whilst I would be the first to agree that the track has been slick so far this season, last nights track had the most dirt on it that I have seen for a long time. I have first hand knowledge of this because I had a rake in hand pulling it of the fence all night. Also James Shanes pulled of a couple of outside passes during the night so there was definatley a point in trying. As mentioned in the program there is a rarity of shale available at the moment and I know we are trying to source some.

 

"The meeting was over by heat five and we only looked better in the later part of the meeting as Eastbourne relaxed and eased off. "

The heat times dont support this hypothesis and niether did the racing.

I had more to say but then I took a look at the Brummies forum to find that someone had said it better and more succinct than I can. So I am going to repeat that post here (hoping the person in question does not mind.) I will say this though. I understand the frustration. I share it. I understand the worry and share it. I hate seeing my beloved Brummies lose. And after the first 7 heats last night I was ready to dig a hole and jump down it. However the next 8 heats were far far better and I was impressed that we didnt just throw in the towel and showed a lot of courage on what would have been a very difficult night for them. They didnt throw in the towel so Im not going to.

The post I was reffering to follows.

 

So its nearly 24 hours on and perhaps the dust is starting to settle (quite literally) on last nights performance.

Lets start with a reality check - at the end of last season there were few if any who wished to remain in the third tier of racing. Because of what happened in the Phillips era we all knew we were a club with no riding assets so our journey in putting together a team was going to be a long one and because we had the 'chicken & egg' situation of needing assets before we met the Championship entry requirements but couldn't really sign assets until we were 'in' it must have been a pretty thankless task. When you compare that to last nights opponents Eastbourne who because of the demise of Lakeside and the switch of the promotion they had a ready made list of quality experienced assets who they are now able to use.

Now the 7 we have started with may not be the best in the league but they have been put together on a budget that hopefully ensures we last the season - something I am not convinced all other clubs will achieve. Watching the last three home matches, and the last two against fellow Championship clubs in particular, each of our riders have shown, albeit in glimpses, that they have the ability to win races around Perry Barr. Just look at last night, 5 of our 7 were paid for winning races and of the two that didn't one was Paco who as probably been the brightest spark of the season so far. I really don't think the effort they are putting in can be questioned (look at Tobias 2nd ride last night when he pushed all of the way for no reward) but its not their fault if at the moment on a regular basis they are not as good as the riders they are being asked to race against. One thing they do all need to work on though is their gating which is absolutely dreadful and if they cant get that right then perhaps we need to 'fix' the track accordingly!

I sincerely hope we don't make wholesale changes and we persevere with what we've got now - I'm not convinced the crowds will drop considerably just because we aren't winning (if we are honest could they get much poorer than last night?) but the sense of achievement when this team does win (and despite what others think I do believe we will break our duck) will be fantastic for all who witness it.

I don't want us to become Poole - a side that switches and drops riders at the drop of a hat to fit the averages - but I do want to see our team of racers given a chance.

brilliant post, I'm not sure some who comment actually go to some matches. Plenty of passing as you say from both sides although our lads had to do more of it as they invariable missed the starts. The track looks smoother and less bumpy than it did and as you say once they get some decent shale will only improve.  

In most races after heat 7 they were the ones "hanging on to places" and the team spirit in 3-4 races where we started to fight back was evident.

I agree too about us having to start from scratch, no doubt that Eastbourne had help with Cook taking Lawson, Morley and Bowtell with him, Kennett simply went home, Wood and Brennan already there so in reality only had to source one rider in Kerr. Our task was much harder and having been down there twice this season clear their crowds are at least double those of ours and probably a lot less rent to pay.

We have found ourselves in a Shield Group with a team who came down with 3 top quality heat leaders and a winning mentality ; a team moving up with 3 top quality heat leaders imported in and what seems massive positive momentum commercially and energy wise, we will only be able to judge ourselves I think against the likes of Redcar' Berwick and Scunthorpe, no disrepect to them but I believe teams with similar crowd levels and similar battles in the past few years that we are  having now to establish a proper base.

One win as you say and it'll be blue skies over Perry Barr.

[Brummie Kev 519]

 

1 hour ago, guitar_art said:

"The meeting was over by heat five and we only looked better in the later part of the meeting as Eastbourne relaxed and eased off. "

The heat times dont support this hypothesis and niether did the racing.

I had more to say but then I took a look at the Brummies forum to find that someone had said it better and more succinct than I can. So I am going to repeat that post here (hoping the person in question does not mind.) I will say this though. I understand the frustration. I share it. I understand the worry and share it. I hate seeing my beloved Brummies lose. And after the first 7 heats last night I was ready to dig a hole and jump down it. However the next 8 heats were far far better and I was impressed that we didnt just throw in the towel and showed a lot of courage on what would have been a very difficult night for them. They didnt throw in the towel so Im not going to.

 

There's times when you can put a positive spin on it but honestly last night for me just wasn't acceptable, I was really disappointed. The score after them awful 7 heats was 13-29 and even after abit  better next 8 heats we still lost be a margin of 16 points!. Its no positive that we avoided a drubbing and only lost by 16 which is resounding enough. People are totally right to feel annoyed, angry and disappointed after last night but I hope we all keep the coming every week and give the side our full support in the coming meetings.

We need a reaction from the team next week against Berwick, better gating and more consistency from some of the riders is needed so we can avoid a night last night again. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Brummie Kev

[GiveusaB 1,130]

At the end of the day, like I've previously stated.... 'We've only had 2 competitive 'home' meetings' ? give the boys a chance to bed in!

[Fromafar 10,333]

6 hours ago, GiveusaB said:

A reserve can replace the No.2 rider

Correct,my mistake.

[Speedway fan 205]

6 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Correct,my mistake.

or the other reserve

[kitten2502 252]

7 hours ago, ProudtobeaBrummie said:

……. it looks like  Mr rogers has a been trying to sell a single  bonus ball card for months and cant fill it . Some people seem to be getting hacked off with that thread as it does appear to be getting rather farical. He keeps putting who would of won if the card had been completed hahahaha .

Cue Brian buck and Guitar art responding shortly towing the club/management line.

Hopefully you'll see I'm neither Brian Buck nor Guitar Art...…….

Why exactly are you mocking somebody who is actually trying to raise money to improve the club amenities for the junior riders? Or is it just because it's Laurence Rogers who is actively trying to get the work done? I think you'll find that it's the second "Bonus Ball" sweepstake which is taking a while to sell & that was only instigated by people requesting another! But don't let the truth get in the way eh...……...

[brianbuck 928]

It seems that GA and myself are being "challenged" to respond to the earlier post, si can I say that I am not and never have been, involved in any way in the administration or the operation of the Birmingham forum. I am a regular poster on this, but nothing more. I have no problem at all with anyone having differing opinions to myself - or in them airing them! I do know the people who run the forum though.They are genuine, fair-minded people and have never banned anyone for their views - only when their comments are either offensive or personal - and this seems to be the norm with all club's supporters' forums.

The Brummies performance last Wednesday was deplorable - it doesn't require an expect to recognise that, and it is also clear that much better performances will be required if the team is to make any impression at all this season. Having said this though, we have had, discounting the opening meeting with Wolverhampton, which none of us expected to win, two home meetings, both against what I feel are a couple of the League's stronger clubs, one of which produced a narrow defeat from what the majority of supporters agree was a creditable effort, and one pretty awful showing last Wednesday, so it is hardly fair to rubbish the whole team on the strength of just two matches?

Personally, I think the make up of our team is very fragile and that we will need all seven of our team to at least ride to form if we are going to register a few wins, but I'm prepared to give all the riders a reasonable chance so whilst there will be a few ready to throw in the towel after two meetings, I hope the majority will do likewise.If that's "blinkered" or "towing the management line" then so be it!

Edited May 3, 2019 by brianbuck