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2 hours ago, Boothers said:

Can posters on here please stop criticising Redcar for the 'lack of a 2nd ambulance'. Firstly if the requirement to have a second ambulance was needed by the ruling bodies then Redcar would have provided one or we wouldn't have been given the meeting in the first place. Secondly can the critical posters tell us how many other British Semi final meetings - or indeed Finals - have actually had two ambulances in attendance? No? Probably because,  fortunately,  last nights circumstances have never arisen before.

The only difference two ambulances would have made last night was that the meeting would have finished possibly 50 minutes earlier than it did. The major hold up being after the awful Heat 1 crash where riders were being medically attended to on track for perhaps 20 minutes. It was deemed then by the attendant paramedics that outside help was required  and the 'county' ambulance (why is it called that?) was called for. I don't know what the critical posters think of our (marvellous) health services these days but ambulance staff/paramedics do not just dump patients off at hospital and I would suggest that said 2nd ambulance would not have been back at the stadium when the unfortunate spectator took ill. A First Response ambulance arrived within minutes and their specialist knowledge deemed that a seriously ill person required hospital treatment and another ambulance was called for. 

To criticise Redcar for any of this is beyond belief.

The vast majority of the people stayed to the end (including the presentations) and although we grumbled what's the problem?

The Redcar promotion team are enthusiastic and forward thinking and should be praised for the efforts they are making this year and not being shot at by petty minded jibes from outsiders. 

Oh and I also didn't appreciate a certain riders comment over the microphone under the circumstances. 

Wolves always had 2 Ambulances for the British Final

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2 hours ago, Phil The Ace said:

Another thing, how the hell did the ref come to the conclusion that howarth should be excluded for that heat 1 crash. 

 

Refs getting worse

 

1 hour ago, Yearbyred said:

There is a picture of the moments just before the first heat crash - I couldn't believe Howarth was excluded (and neither could he judging by his reaction despite being in pain)

https://twitter.com/SpeedwayGB/status/1134764196195950592?s=20

The way I saw it, Garrity lifted out of the gate, when his front wheel came back down he wobbled to the left into Starke, this contact unsettled Starke and made Garrity move over to the right into Nielsen & Howarth resulting in everybody heading into the Air fence. The picture of the moments just before the crash looks as though it was take just after Garrity's contact with Starke and just before Garrity collected Nielsen &Howarth. Personally I was expecting "all 4 Back" or at a push an exclusion for Garrity. Others may have seen it differently.

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9 minutes ago, pvm said:

 

The way I saw it, Garrity lifted out of the gate, when his front wheel came back down he wobbled to the left into Starke, this contact unsettled Starke and made Garrity move over to the right into Nielsen & Howarth resulting in everybody heading into the Air fence. The picture of the moments just before the crash looks as though it was take just after Garrity's contact with Starke and just before Garrity collected Nielsen &Howarth. Personally I was expecting "all 4 Back" or at a push an exclusion for Garrity. Others may have seen it differently.

I definitely saw it differently. There seemed to be contact going on, in gates 1 and 2s lane. Howarth made a good start, was maybe half a bike length up, when he came across from gate 4. I could not  believe how early he came across, he was nearly into lane 2, with 3 hard chargers on his inside. He was not far enough ahead to do that and it would have been a miracle if a collision had not resulted.Given the untidiness, going on,. on the inside no one was in a position to deal with that. I believe, the referee took the view, that Howarth's actions caused the bunching and that he was premature going across, (they hadn't even got to the 1st turn) and excluded him. At best I would describe Howarths actions as very ambitious, but I genuinely expected all 4back. If some one had to go then it was him, I would have picked.

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1 hour ago, pvm said:

 

The way I saw it, Garrity lifted out of the gate, when his front wheel came back down he wobbled to the left into Starke, this contact unsettled Starke and made Garrity move over to the right into Nielsen & Howarth resulting in everybody heading into the Air fence. The picture of the moments just before the crash looks as though it was take just after Garrity's contact with Starke and just before Garrity collected Nielsen &Howarth. Personally I was expecting "all 4 Back" or at a push an exclusion for Garrity. Others may have seen it differently.

 

40 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

I definitely saw it differently. There seemed to be contact going on, in gates 1 and 2s lane. Howarth made a good start, was maybe half a bike length up, when he came across from gate 4. I could not  believe how early he came across, he was nearly into lane 2, with 3 hard chargers on his inside. He was not far enough ahead to do that and it would have been a miracle if a collision had not resulted.Given the untidiness, going on,. on the inside no one was in a position to deal with that. I believe, the referee took the view, that Howarth's actions caused the bunching and that he was premature going across, (they hadn't even got to the 1st turn) and excluded him. At best I would describe Howarths actions as very ambitious, but I genuinely expected all 4back. If some one had to go then it was him, I would have picked.

We appear to agree about the contact taking place in gates 1& 2, where we differ is in regard to Howarth's involvement in the incident. The way I saw it, and it's only my opinion, the contact between Starke & Garrity unsettled both rider and caused them to both move out from the Kerb at the same time as Howarth was coming across from gate 4. Without the benefit of a replay (preferably from different angles) it's all down to opinion based on each persons view of the incident. I saw the incident from one angle, you saw it from a different angle, the referee saw it from another angle. None of us had the benefit of seeing a replay and having the full picture on which to make a fully informed decision. We may have different opinions, but that is all they are, opinions. Although the referee has the benefit of his opinion(decision) is always right and final (even when it's wrong ;)).

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Posted (edited)

A night that could be labelled unfortunate.

Redcar are normally efficient at running meetings... this was a night when circumstances dictated most unusual delays which were totally out of control of the promoters,

i left early due to family circumstances but would normally have seen the meeting out.

The Redcar promoters have impressed me in the past and I have no problems returning even with a 205  mile trip to get there..

good luck to Redcar and I hope to be back weather permitting in the future.

Edited by Gunner85
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20 hours ago, pvm said:

 

We appear to agree about the contact taking place in gates 1& 2, where we differ is in regard to Howarth's involvement in the incident. The way I saw it, and it's only my opinion, the contact between Starke & Garrity unsettled both rider and caused them to both move out from the Kerb at the same time as Howarth was coming across from gate 4. Without the benefit of a replay (preferably from different angles) it's all down to opinion based on each persons view of the incident. I saw the incident from one angle, you saw it from a different angle, the referee saw it from another angle. None of us had the benefit of seeing a replay and having the full picture on which to make a fully informed decision. We may have different opinions, but that is all they are, opinions. Although the referee has the benefit of his opinion(decision) is always right and final (even when it's wrong ;)).

You are correct, it is all about opinions. My view and the referee's were probably very similar, ( I stand on the start line and the ref has a view from a higher level). From my view, I got a great concept of how early and how far, Howarth came across. In my opinion, that was the main contributory reason for the incident. I remember, as I watched him move across I screamed one word, NO.

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It is all about opinions and from my view from the bar area , it looked like the jostling between Starke and Garrity caused a domino effect . From my angle you couldn't tell if Howarth moved across

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On 6/1/2019 at 9:50 AM, Boothers said:

Can posters on here please stop criticising Redcar for the 'lack of a 2nd ambulance'. Firstly if the requirement to have a second ambulance was needed by the ruling bodies then Redcar would have provided one or we wouldn't have been given the meeting in the first place. Secondly can the critical posters tell us how many other British Semi final meetings - or indeed Finals - have actually had two ambulances in attendance? No? Probably because,  fortunately,  last nights circumstances have never arisen before.

The only difference two ambulances would have made last night was that the meeting would have finished possibly 50 minutes earlier than it did. The major hold up being after the awful Heat 1 crash where riders were being medically attended to on track for perhaps 20 minutes. It was deemed then by the attendant paramedics that outside help was required  and the 'county' ambulance (why is it called that?) was called for. I don't know what the critical posters think of our (marvellous) health services these days but ambulance staff/paramedics do not just dump patients off at hospital and I would suggest that said 2nd ambulance would not have been back at the stadium when the unfortunate spectator took ill. A First Response ambulance arrived within minutes and their specialist knowledge deemed that a seriously ill person required hospital treatment and another ambulance was called for. 

To criticise Redcar for any of this is beyond belief.

The vast majority of the people stayed to the end (including the presentations) and although we grumbled what's the problem?

The Redcar promotion team are enthusiastic and forward thinking and should be praised for the efforts they are making this year and not being shot at by petty minded jibes from outsiders. 

Oh and I also didn't appreciate a certain riders comment over the microphone under the circumstances. 

stick a fiver on the entrance fee to cover the 2nd ambulance , that should stop them moaning .

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