mikebv 10,163 Posted June 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, James Carter said: Wasnt 1 league tried around 94? Not sure if it was the same season that it was an 18 heat formula. From memory it was a bit rubbish Use of Guest, R/R, riding for multiple teams etc. It's all a bit odd and unique to speedway. Personally I'd rather see a guest ride as I want to see competitive racing and have no personal attachment to any team. Which I personally think the sport should do James.. ie. take away any personal attachment to any team.. The sport can be great, so showcase it at an individual level and with national teams.. Run domestic speedway like stock cars do their sport and run regular test matches v other nations.. if it cannot run itself successfully as a team sport, them simply don't as you cannot ever win.. Therefore try something else.. The operating model used is a complete failure, as is validated by the loss of a huge amount of fans over the past two decades by using it... There is though, still a reasonable demand for Speedway when it has relevance.. So make more meetings relevant.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Grachan said: There's been plenty of strange guest situation since I started going back in 1974. Bob Kilby riding against Swindon twice in one evening for 2 different sides. John Davis guesting for Oxford in place of John Davis. I don't see how the Max Fricke example is any worse. Remember it well...all because Ole Olsen refused to come to Oxford (thank goodness) and we got Dag Lovaas instead. Perculiar in that Oxford very nearly always opened their account in a League tie at Coventry before any warm up fixtures which is how John rode in place of himself! I seem to recall a similar scenario surrounding Alan Mogridge also? Edited June 9, 2019 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyd 165 Posted June 15, 2019 I think the only way speedway is going to survive in this country is by going back to be semi-professional, the teams in the UK cannot afford to pay big bucks to riders on the crowds they draw in. The league needs fixed point money across all the teams (with maybe a bonus system for maximum points or a big win etc) If the riders want the big money then go to Europe to get it (mind you how many times do you hear of riders waiting to get paid?). Yes bikes are expensive to buy and maintain so there is another problem with costs and needs to be looked at. (maybe a league / teams using the F2 bikes) If fans / promoters want the big name riders them maybe the European league that was punted about a few years ago needs looking into again, nothing to stop clubs running in the two leagues if they can afford it. Lower costs might also stop some riders being signed by a team and spending thousands on equipment at the start of the season only to be told a couple of months later they have not made the grade and are them dropped and ending up with a garage full of expensive ornaments there still paying for. I don't think there is any easy answer to the plight of speedway in this country at present and apart from the people with there heads in the sand saying "all is well" and "its just a glitch its happened before and speedway had bounced back" things need to change and fast. One things for sure at present the guest riders situation, poorly prepared tracks, and the powers that be letting any old crap being served to Joe public and still expecting them still to come smiling and cheering through the turnstiles each race night are long gone. One things for sure and that is the old saying of "A turd is still a turd no matter how much you polish it" relates to speedway as it is at present. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,784 Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) The real frustration is that we have been here before. I believe the late fifties and early sixties was speedway's other tipping point. Thankfully the British shale scene was saved by the introduction of the one big league. Three years later we had the introduction of the new second division and tracks seemed to open instead of close. But, especially now, whereas we actually had people with the nouse to rescue a sinking ship back then, I think today's so-called promoters are too busy saving their belongings in their personal cabin and haven't seen the wider picture. Almost sixty years ago it was men in suits that looked the part. Nowadays I feel the sport is being steered along by a bunch of chancers. It is a mystery how they've managed to run businesses to have the money to plough into the sport, and yet are quite willing to boast how much they are happy to lose playing at speedway promoting. It is a bit of a shipwreck right now. Comparing the two, we recovered from the fifties. I don't have confidence in recovering from this demise. Edited June 17, 2019 by moxey63 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted June 15, 2019 One advantage of those days from the past - there was little or no televised speedway, live or recorded So, if you wanted to watch the sport, if you wanted to see the "big name" riders, the ONLY way was to pay your shillings and pence at the turnstiles With a big league in operation, there was probably only one chance a season (two with a cup meeting) to see the stars when they appeared at your track 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badge 5,104 Posted June 15, 2019 2 hours ago, moxey63 said: The real frustration is that we have been here before. I believe the late fifties and early sixties was speedway's other tipping point. Thankfully the British shale scene was saved by the introduction of the one big league. Three years later we had the introduction of the new second division and tracks seemed to open instead of close. But, especially now, whereas we actually had people with the nouse to rescue a sinking ship back then, I think today's so-called promoters are too busy saving their belongings in their personal cabin and haven't seen the wider picture. Almost sixty years ago it was men in suits that looked the part. Nowadays I feel the sport is being steered along by a bunch of chancers. It is a mystery how they've managed to run businesses to have the money to plough into the sport, and yet are quite willing to boast how much they are happy to lose playing at speedway promoting. It is a bit of a shipwreck right now. Comparing the two, we recovered from the fifties. I don't have confidence in recovering from this demise. Of course it recovered back then, because today's 60,70 and even 80 year olds who make up today's followers were there as younger fans. Today speedway just isn't interesting enough for the youngsters. Maybe if some of the riders appeared in one of the numerous reality shows that the youngsters thrive on, and raise the profile to them, maybe one or two might actually come along once in a while. Mind you you'd need kozza Smith probably along with tai. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icicle 896 Posted June 15, 2019 Reminded me of Kozza (Krazy K!) characters like that are needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garry1603 353 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) I guess it comes down to the question if the sport (as opposed to the promoters with vested interests) need two 'top' leagues or not. If keeping them separate to allow the top riders to ride / earn at the top level, well that clearly doesn't work with only Doyle of the true 'Elite' still riding here. So why not accept the facts and adapt accordingly. Having a different team visiting each week rather than seeing a rotation of a few teams every couple of months would surely encourage the general fan base to come back each week. Clearly, there's not a big gap between the leagues anymore. so integration would be so much easier than in previous attempts. I used to hate the Rider Control idea as I was a Belle Vue fan, but needs must and if the sport is to survive, EVERY team needs to be competitive and more importantly, viable. When I was 11 in 1971 and going to my first season's meetings with Mum & Dad I'd be reading the Speedway Star on a Thursday and extolling the abilities of Reider Eide or Martin Ashby to them to 'persuade' them to take me on a Saturday to Hyde Road (they always did!) - I can't Imagine a young person now saying "oh, it's Brady Kurtz, Jacob Thorsell, Chris Harris coming to the NSS for the THIRD time in the last two months, can we go to watch.?" Adapt or die I'm afraid, Edited June 18, 2019 by Garry1603 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadster 221 Posted June 19, 2019 I like the idea of a big league, but there would be a serious rider shortage. Leaving aside the issue of doubling up, one big league would have to mean the end of fixed race nights so there woud be fixture clashes with Poland, especially, Sweden and Denmark. Belle Vue would almost certainly lose Fricke and Bjerre, Kings Lynn Lambert, Poole, Kurtz, Holder and Klindt, Swindon, Doyle, Musielak and Batchelor and Wolves, Thorsell and Masters. There may well be others. That's a lot of new riders to find on top of the double uppers (23, I read somewhere) How would we manage this problem. Even 6 man teams wouldn't be a solution. 5 man teams like in Denmark? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteveEvans 248 Posted June 22, 2019 One big league would have to be run at a maximum of current Championship level costs. The bigger worry from the larger teams entering in would be driving up overhead. A fixed payscale is the best way to achieve this but considering the NL fails to do that it is easier said than done. The last think we want is an 18 team league that soon drops to 12 or less as costs get driven up. 18 team league, 17 home fixtures plus Cup of 1-5 gives a full season for all and variety. Perhaps run 6 man teams to ensure enough riders and extra races so those who DU can at least get some extra heats to make up the income gap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,608 Posted June 22, 2019 On 6/15/2019 at 2:08 PM, Midland Red said: One advantage of those days from the past - there was little or no televised speedway, live or recorded So, if you wanted to watch the sport, if you wanted to see the "big name" riders, the ONLY way was to pay your shillings and pence at the turnstiles With a big league in operation, there was probably only one chance a season (two with a cup meeting) to see the stars when they appeared at your track Other sports that are much more televised don't have a problem .. another only in speedway thing . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topsoil 2,498 Posted June 22, 2019 2 hours ago, SteveEvans said: One big league would have to be run at a maximum of current Championship level costs. The bigger worry from the larger teams entering in would be driving up overhead. A fixed payscale is the best way to achieve this but considering the NL fails to do that it is easier said than done. The last think we want is an 18 team league that soon drops to 12 or less as costs get driven up. 18 team league, 17 home fixtures plus Cup of 1-5 gives a full season for all and variety. Perhaps run 6 man teams to ensure enough riders and extra races so those who DU can at least get some extra heats to make up the income gap. Exactly what I can see happening. One league, two or three, the only way I can see to reduce costs is to stop giving in to riders' demands. Riders need to realise that the sport in this country cannot afford full time, all year round professionals. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HertsRacer 222 Posted June 23, 2019 16 hours ago, orion said: Other sports that are much more televised don't have a problem .. another only in speedway thing . Problem is there is no atmosphere at live speedway these days, so you don't miss anything by watching it on TV. I watch ice hockey on TV and it is a bit dull, but go to a live match the atmosphere is electric with plenty of away supporters and lots of banter. I would always rather pay to watch a game live than watch it on TV. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,017 Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/15/2019 at 6:53 AM, moxey63 said: It is a bit of a shipwreck right now. Comparing the two, we recovered from the fifties. I don't have confidence in recovering from this demise. Rremember that it was the introduction of the entertainment tax that was at the root of the problem back then, not a lack of support. Plus, back then, there was no shortage of venues - and many potential venues - available. The Great British NIMBY has ensured that isn't the case now, as well as the demise of greyhound racing. Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted June 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, chunky said: Rremember that it was the introduction of the entertainment tax that was at the root of the problem back then, not a lack of support. Plus, back then, there was no shortage of venues - and many potential venues - available. The Great British NIMBY has ensured that isn't the case now, as well as the demise of greyhound racing. Steve Which, apparently, speedway got hit with a massive 48% whereas other sports (including football) 'only' contributed 15% from gate receipts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites