Bald Bloke 3,281 Posted June 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Crump99 said: Don't burst his bubble Neil, he worked bloody hard to come up with that pointless example I don't have a bubble. Buster can't ride the bikes for your flops tonight.Look at their scores. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted June 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, orion said: Good post . as I said I don't have the answers to get the money to fund the riders etc ..but to say better riders don't bring in better crowds is the most stupid thing I have ever heard on this forum . The last bit is so true the horse has bolted and long gone .. you are correct nothing can save it now from the slow death . To answer your first bit, it's only going to happen through financing and sponsorship. The issue is the sport doesnt generate enough revenue to give any ROI and isn't financially secure enough to offer any creditors security. Its currently a collapsing enterprise. The sport needs to tidy itself up first and formost and get back to basics. Clean up the product, sort out the tracks, simplify the rules and start going after the right fan base. It needs to put together a solid, progressive business plan over the next 10 years and then go and secure some finance/sponsorship and execute the planning properly. Not like last time by pissing it up the wall and into the back pockets of some promoters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted June 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: What a poor attendance tonight which once again proves the BV ‘promoters’ are frankly useless. Smith and Lemon are just hired hands picking up wages and have no idea of how to run a speedway club. As you say Mike they don’t promote the club or any meetings, they are lazy and complacent. British speedway is in terminal decline and the same goes for BV. The deluded people running the sport and clubs are 100% to blame, not the fans or the fans who have had enough and walked away. Badly run businesses more often than not go bust and that’s what’s happening to Speedway. The plain truth is the future for the sport is very bleak and sadly more clubs will go to the wall this year. You could say the same about, quite literally, every single promotion in the United Kingdom. I think speedway has promoted itself better this season, certainly through social media. Like I've been banging in the last few posts, you can lead a horse to water....I'm sure you know the rest. Personally I think both Mark and Adrian are doing okay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted June 14, 2019 6 hours ago, orion said: Wrong attitude .we been going back to basics for the last 20 years .cut it's cloth etc etc ..as you can see it's not worked .. You need stop kidding yourself that people want to watch juniors etc . People don't want to watch speedway full stop, regardless of who's riding. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, cityrebel said: People don't want to watch speedway full stop, regardless of who's riding. I dont agree... Cardiff will have 45000 people watching it, and as Speedway has I would say at most 20000 fans attending each week, most of which will be British fans who don't actually attend domestic Speedway regularly... The SoN filled the NSS... The U21 WTC is tracking to have a crowd much bigger than any Aces match... Bank Holidays and the first match of the Season (before the 'guestfests' kick in), bring 'bumper crowds'.. As indeed does the Play Off Final... Therefore, there is a demand when done with credibility, on a day/night when you want to watch it, at a price commensurate with what's on offer, and the meeting has some meaning... None of those so vitally important four boxes British Speedway currently ticks... There are currently many, many more people who are 'ex regulars' than currently go each week yet keep in contact with the Sport.. Maybe they need to start listening to why these people no longer attend domestic Speedway and fix the reasons... I know if I had a business that this had happened to, I would... Edited June 14, 2019 by mikebv 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted June 14, 2019 One off events and dry bank holidays will always pull the crowds in. I've been to 22 meetings this season at ten different tracks. The crowds have been poor to average at the majority of these. If the british public think that the sport is poor value for money, you can't force them to go. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, cityrebel said: One off events and dry bank holidays will always pull the crowds in. I've been to 22 meetings this season at ten different tracks. The crowds have been poor to average at the majority of these. If the british public think that the sport is poor value for money, you can't force them to go. Exactly... There is though a demand for the sport when the following boxes are ticked. Seen to be Value For Money.. Ran at times your fans want to (and can) attend.. Meetings ran with some actual relevance, where the outcome tangibly means something.. Meetings ran with Credibility and Integrity.. Four boxes that the sport will fail to completely tick, each night, every week, somewhere around the country... And that's why those who still have much more than a passing interest no longer go... But will still attend meetings that do tick all four boxes.. Meetings that are often ran by other organisations than the BSPA.. Edited June 14, 2019 by mikebv 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted June 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Hawk127 said: I did not say juniors. The sport as a whole does not revolve around GP riders and over rated gate and go merchants. It is not going back to basics either but frankly Doyle and his ilk have no place in U K speedway. In any other business model they would have priced themselves out of the market and U K speedway simply cannot afford them but not here. They add nothing to the credibility of the sport or numbers through the gate and as long as promoters kid themselves that these guys are the answer to the renaissance of UK speedway then it has no chance of a revival. People also have short memories, you deride juniors but all your so called super rider heroes/star attractions were once juniors plying their trades and had to start somewhere. They were not instant stars or a success. No wonder the sport is on its knees if that is all you want you see. Why be an up and coming rider trying your best if you are to criticised at every step until you make it as a heat leader or GP participant. Great post Hawk at Swindon we have Doyley look i love watching him ride but can we really afford him getting 12/1400 everyweek?.What i would like to see happen for the sport to survive is for every club to cut its cloth and run it as a viable long term business.It is a myth to believe that say bringing a Woffinden say in at Wolves would put 500 on the gate he would not.The extra few fans you would get would only go towards paying Tai the days of say a Ivan/Briggo/Ole riding and putting an extra 300 on the gate are long gone.Get more fixtures get the product right and start from there speedway when put together correctly is spectacular whatever the level of rider. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ouch 1,191 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) It’s the quantity that’s the issue currently. You could leave everything as it is in terms of publicity, marketing, standard of rider, presentation and quality of racing but if you only ran once a month the crowds would be great - everywhere. Similarly if you ran Cardiff 2 or 3 times a month the crowds would plummet, even if everything else remained the same. BSI don’t even want ONE other GP in the whole UK because of the adverse effect on the crowd. The sport will and needs to die off first before it rebuilds as everybody from current fans to promoters wants what they have always had but that sadly is no longer viable. Edited June 14, 2019 by ouch 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted June 14, 2019 1 hour ago, mikebv said: I dont agree... Cardiff will have 45000 people watching it, and as Speedway has I would say at most 20000 fans attending each week, most of which will be British fans who don't actually attend domestic Speedway regularly... The SoN filled the NSS... The U21 WTC is tracking to have a crowd much bigger than any Aces match... Bank Holidays and the first match of the Season (before the 'guestfests' kick in), bring 'bumper crowds'.. As indeed does the Play Off Final... Therefore, there is a demand when done with credibility, on a day/night when you want to watch it, at a price commensurate with what's on offer, and the meeting has some meaning... None of those so vitally important four boxes British Speedway currently ticks... There are currently many, many more people who are 'ex regulars' than currently go each week yet keep in contact with the Sport.. Maybe they need to start listening to why these people no longer attend domestic Speedway and fix the reasons... I know if I had a business that this had happened to, I would... Mike i don't what is happening at most clubs but my club Swindon with Lee Kilby on board progress is being made.The other week one of the bars was packed with potential sponsors also our club is doing a lot to encourage youngsters (i.e.) going in the pits meeting there heroes the riders.Lee Kilby i would say is in the Barry Bishop mould he has seen the good old days (i.e.with his great dad) but he is innovative and his greatest strength is his people skills.He is always willing to speak and listen and we need a lot more of these people in Speedway for the sport to move on. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted June 14, 2019 Just now, Sidney the robin said: Mike i don't what is happening at most clubs but my club Swindon with Lee Kilby on board progress is being made.The other week one of the bars was packed with potential sponsors also our club is doing a lot to encourage youngsters (i.e.) going in the pits meeting there heroes the riders.Lee Kilby i would say is in the Barry Bishop mould he has seen the good old days (i.e.with his great dad) but he is innovative and his greatest strength is his people skills.He is always willing to speak and listen and we need a lot more of these people in Speedway for the sport to move on. Heard the same about Lee.. Often on Social Media around the country on other clubs' fans groups, imparting information... If only we gave the likes of Lee and Barry the infrastructure to really sell their sport... On a National scale though, not just at Provincial level.. Tracks doing a lot of great work in isolation can only reach so far... A truly joined up National marketing campaign could do so much more good for the whole of the Sport.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted June 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, mikebv said: Exactly... There is though a demand for the sport when the following boxes are ticked. Seen to be Value For Money.. Ran at times your fans want to (and can) attend.. Meetings ran with some actual relevance, where the outcome tangibly means something.. Meetings ran with Credibility and Integrity.. Four boxes that the sport will fail to completely tick, each night, every week, somewhere around the country... And that's why those who still have much more than a passing interest no longer go... But will still attend meetings that do tick all four boxes.. Meetings that are often ran by other organisations than the BSPA.. I'd very much agree with 'credibility and integrity' - the cheating is one of my major issues with the sport - but probably take issue with the other three. Value for money is very much down to the individual but Halifax Town charge £20 for adult entry. They are in the Vanarama League, light years away from the top of their sport. Belle Vue was £18 last night, its at the top standard in this country and one of the riders on show will be competing at the very highest level in Prague tomorrow night. On that comparison, speedway looks cheap. I am not sure how last nights meeting had no relevance. True, 7 teams isn't enough but if you are referring to the play off system - and, lets face it, you have to win meetings in the league season to get there - I wonder how many Leeds United fans thought their league matches were a waste of time. The question is which night is right ? Some (I hasten to say I do not agree) will say that's not Friday or Saturday due to competition from other leisure activities. It was noticeable that Workington tried desperately to change from Saturday nights last year (ostensibly due to competition from televised GP coverage) while Glasgow changed from Sundays. Finally, at the pre season Belle Vue meeting, Adrian Smith said that Aces gates were bigger on Mondays in the school holidays than Fridays, and its noticeable that the majority of Colts meetings are now midweek. For me, last night was the right time, its comparatively good value at £18 and it was (on paper, not Belle Vue's fault Peterborough were rubbish) a full blooded league clash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted June 14, 2019 I thought this would be close - after all, all of Peterborough's riders have had good meetings at the NSS. Instead, the Aces were much sharper at the gate and on many occasions went past opponents with little difficulty. Fricke never looked like being beaten, Berge, Wells & Worrall had their best meetings of the season, Bewley lost points when way ahead due to clutch problems and Bjerre was his usual consistent self. Only Lidsey with two ducks might not be satisfied with last nights performance. Peterborough, on the hand, were a shambles with only Wright and Wilson-Dean giving the occasional flash. Nicholls, Palm Toft and Tungate were especially disappointing. The NSS wasn't at its best but you could pass inside and out as the Aces proved and it was still better than most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) HT The Play Offs allow you to cherry pick ringers, and swap them at half time, so all matches leading up to them are therefore completely devoid of relevance. If those who run the sport have such scant regard for their own flagship competition then why go and attend the qualifiers? £25 for an Adult and a 16 year old to watch 15 mins of action isn't VFM. (And doing it during GCSE week means even less chance of going).. Football has a 'brand' and a following, Speedway has neither. So can charge what they want until that price elasticity snaps.. What you might see as 'ok', HT, many, many more thousands who have left the sport, don't.. And, with all due respect, it is those people who need to listened to, far more, than those who still attend.. Edited June 14, 2019 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted June 14, 2019 50 minutes ago, ouch said: It’s the quantity that’s the issue currently. You could leave everything as it is in terms of publicity, marketing, standard of rider, presentation and quality of racing but if you only ran once a month the crowds would be great - everywhere. Similarly if you ran Cardiff 2 or 3 times a month the crowds would plummet, even if everything else remained the same. BSI don’t even want ONE other GP in the whole UK because of the adverse effect on the crowd. The sport will and needs to die off first before it rebuilds as everybody from current fans to promoters wants what they have always had but that sadly is no longer viable. Peterborough’s crowds should be huge then... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
