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GUEST RIDER BRAINWAVE!!

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13 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Guests are a necessary evil. I've always said though that guest riders for Premiership should always be Championship riders with an average of 4.50 or less. Then that rider takes the No7 position and the others move up a position. R/R should only be available after a 3rd rider in the team is missing. 

Whilst 'guests are a necessary evil' (in Britain), then the sport (as a team concept) simply won't move forward, because it can't can it? 

Imagine Wroclaw using Dudek to replace the injured Woffy?

ZG fans would lynch him should he score the points for Wroclaw that prevents ZG from qualifying for the play offs..

And Wroclaw fans would lynch him if he scored next to nothing and they didn't. ..:D

In Poland it actually means something. To fans, media and (probably most importantly) the blue chip sponsors. 

And if they ran a guest system it wouldn't have anywhere near the same stature, nor mean so much..

I do though think that guests are here to stay as it's the 'easiest' way of running the sport and provides riders with extra earning potential...

One rider once told me that 'guesting' was the cherry on the top of the icing on top of the cake...

I think now for many riders it now just forms part of the cake, hence will carry on being part of the plan..

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9 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Whilst 'guests are a necessary evil' (in Britain), then the sport (as a team concept) simply won't move forward, because it can't can it? 

Imagine Wroclaw using Dudek to replace the injured Woffy?

ZG fans would lynch him should he score the points for Wroclaw that prevents ZG from qualifying for the play offs..

And Wroclaw fans would lynch him if he scored next to nothing and they didn't. ..:D

In Poland it actually means something. To fans, media and (probably most importantly) the blue chip sponsors. 

And if they ran a guest system it wouldn't have anywhere near the same stature, nor mean so much..

I do though think that guests are here to stay as it's the 'easiest' way of running the sport and provides riders with extra earning potential...

One rider once told me that 'guesting' was the cherry on the top of the icing on top of the cake...

I think now for many riders it now just forms part of the cake, hence will carry on being part of the plan..

imagine Cradley using a guest from Wolves or Swindon using a rider from Oxford ? it happened and no one lynch anyone or really cared . As has been said before thou guests are not ideal not one person has come up with a better and workable idea that won't effect crowds figures . 

The uk ran a system with guests and at one time had massive stature and still meant a lot .

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4 minutes ago, orion said:

imagine Cradley using a guest from Wolves or Swindon using a rider from Oxford ? it happened and no one lynch anyone or really cared . As has been said before thou guests are not ideal not one person has come up with a better and workable idea that won't effect crowds figures . 

The uk ran a system with guests and at one time had massive stature and still meant a lot .

The fact 'no one cared' is (sadly), probably the biggest clue as to the worth of the competitions...

Unless it means something to win, then really, why bother? 

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Just now, mikebv said:

The fact 'no one cared' is (sadly), probably the biggest clue as to the worth of the competitions...

Unless it means something to win, then really, why bother? 

The competitions were massive and people did care .what they never  cared about was  guests being used . 

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6 minutes ago, orion said:

The competitions were massive and people did care .what they never  cared about was  guests being used . 

You are probably right...

I can actually see Poland and Sweden adopting the system any day now now they have seen how succesful it can be...:D

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, mikebv said:

You are probably right...

I can actually see Poland and Sweden adopting the system any day now now they have seen how succesful it can be...:D

Correct ..the moment we stop using guests will be as successful as Poland and Sweden :D:D  you can see it  now fans who have stopped going will flock back once the news get's out . Clubs will have to take the phones off the hooks as the sponsors phone them up the sport will be awash with money and just like Poland with  20 ,000 purpose built staduims wlll arise just because we don't use guests :P

Edited by orion

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The use of guests only bothers current fans nobody new will give speedway a miss because of them and nor does mainstream media.

In fact I would make the use of guests a positive when advertising the sport. How many sports are so dangerous that there aren't enough competitors to go round? Telling everyone just how dangerous speedway really is would be the best way to attract newcomers, especially the younger generation.

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2 hours ago, mikebv said:

The leagues might have had results shown in most newspapers but, unlike today, they didn't come under any scrutiny as to how those points shown were delivered.

BECAUSE PEOPLE WEREN'T WORRIED ABOUT IT!

In the old days, there was no desire for "credibility". Or political correctness, equality, diversity, or whatever. I'm not just talking about speedway either...

You either enjoyed something or you didnt. If you did, great. If you didn't, you went and did something else. If the latter, you didn't feel compelled to justify your opinions, or to ridicule those who didn't share your views.

Look at the BSF... There are multitudes queuing up to tell you how bad, stupid, and worthless sports like football and F1 are. There are endless comparisons and false accusations in an effort to justify that opinion. Why? Speedway is - and always was - my favorite sport. I have have a lengthy and successful career in darts, but as much as I love darts, speedway was still Number One. I am a footy fan. I am an F1 fan. So? Does that make me stupid or inferior?

As far as speedway, why is it that difficult to watch, and enjoy? Sure, it doesn't matter what you enjoy, there will always be things that you think are bad or stupid. Oh well...

I went to speedway because :

1) I loved watching the racing.

2) I had a passion for my Wimbledon team.

Is that not enough?

Some nights, the fare was poor. And? Sh!t happens...

Was rider control "credible"? Of course not. Did it drive the fans away?

And you can't keep claiming that PC put "thousands" on the gate at Hyde Rd. Great rider, and great to watch. BUT, fans flocked to Hyde Rd in their thousands before PC. Fans flocked to speedway in their thousands before television coverage. Fans flocked to speedway in their thousands when we had guest riders in the 60's and 70's.

There are many reasons why speedway - certainly British speedway - isn't as popular as it once was, but not every reason is speedway-related. More importantly, it has little or nothing to do with credibility...

Steve

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Sadly I feel if one was a get some brainless "celebrity" to gush how "wonderful" Speedway is, the crowds would double.....

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Having read that speedway has always used guests I decided to check up how many the club I supported used in their formative years fifty years or so ago because, for the life of me I could only remember them booking a guest once (for a #1 riding in a World Championship round) and permission to use him was withdrawn when the opposition complained. Anyway, they used one guest all season in their first year, none at all the second year then back to one the third year. They averaged less than two a year for the twenty years I've looked back at.

So yes, guests have always been used but not in the sheer numbers they are now, culminating in the stupid situation of a 'team' turning up with five guests, one of their own riders and utilising R/R for the seventh team member.

Maybe it's the number of guests being used these days that's putting some off rather than guests per se.

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15 minutes ago, Barney Rabbit said:

Maybe it's the number of guests being used these days that's putting some off rather than guests per se.

I will admit that the use of guests now is ridiculous. Thing is, back in the day, riders riding in Britain weren't usually riding elsewhere several times a week. Of course, there is the situation of "priority", particularly when matches are rescheduled, but also, riders are getting injured more because they are riding more.

Back in the day, the guest facility was used for heat leaders only (and only in certain circumstances) and I think it should still be that way. There is no reason at all to need a guest for a four-point second string...

I know people complain about doubling-up, but of course, many BL teams had an association with an NL team. You would often get two or three riders who were part of your "squad", so you didn't have any need for guests for second-strings and reserves. Now, it really seems a case of the tail wagging the dog...

Steve

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Though I have always disliked the guest system it never stopped me from going, it did effect the credibility of the league, even as a ten year old I could work out it wasn't right but the thrill of the racing over-rided that. Plenty of people within the sport made a lot of noise in the 70's concerning guests, but nothing was done as it was the easiest way of covering for missing riders. However Ipswich, one of,  if not the most successful sides of the 1970's achieved all their trophies and titles despite their total refusal to use guests, showing that it could be done.  

Nowadays, older, less easily impressed and more cynical than that ten year old I can hardly be bothered to drag myself along to watch. As Chunky said there are many reasons for the decline in support. For my part I could point to the proliferation of guests, the flexible rulebook, the poor standard of racing at Ipswich these days, Chapman hijacking the club and other gripes for my non-attendance but in reality it is because I am older and more cynical and can see that they are racing for a title that's not worth winning in a league that lacks any credibility.  I still get a buzz from watching great racing but the team element of speedway in the UK, to me, is pointless. Only took me 40 odd years to work that out, mind!  

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1 hour ago, Shrub said:

the poor standard of racing at Ipswich these days

the team element of speedway in the UK, to me, is pointless

Two very legitimate reasons to fall out of love with the sport.

Of course, they were the main reasons I loved the sport. It was hard - very hard - losing my team, but I still love it as a neutral. Having said that, I can't deny that, had I still been attending as a "biased" team fan, I would certainly be disillusioned at the deterioration of the team aspect...

Steve

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Speedway for me these days is more of a social thing. It gets me out of the house for a few hours and i still enjoy going. I can take all the guests and the silly rules because i don't care enough to worry about such things. I can fully understand why people get upset at the way things are going for the sport. The problem is, it's the promoters play thing, and they are not going to let anyone join in their game.

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speedway is all but done, take Saturdays Grand Prix as an example, 16 of the best riders in the world(in theory), 24 races and arguably 20 of those races were pure rubbish, very little in terms of entertainment and excitement.

I would say that 80-90% of speedway meetings see the first 25% of a meeting with no overtaking or excitement other than when a rider gets out of shape.

It is also very noticeable that nowadays riders find it hard to control a bike if the track is anything other than a smooth and shale less..

Right now there aren't many people making money out of the sport, the top riders and engine tuners for sure but the vast majority of riders and promoters are doing their proverbials.

Fans need to realise that in a matter of only a few years there will only be one league in the UK, as Clubs will sadly go to the wall and never return.

Speedway is in the entertainment business,it needs to start entertaining to the wider audience than just the die hard speedway fan.

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